How to sell the world's greatest cars, Simon Kidston?

00:00:00: I must have driven this poor thing in first gear at six thousand revs just to show off and hear the sound of the engine.

00:00:05: And i thought that is the coolest car In The World, so many years later... ...I finally saved up enough money.

00:00:43: His uncle was one of the legendary Bentley boys.

00:00:45: he stands as One Of The Most Important Collector Car Dealers On This Planet.

00:00:51: He has personally brokered the sale of the world's most expensive motorcar.

00:00:57: He is one of the impactful forces in modern car culture, a man whose passion and expertise contributed directly to The Rise Of The Lamborghini Mura And The McLaren F-One.

00:01:12: he keeps car culture alive as a publisher of books and cinematic films.

00:01:18: Here's the official voice of most elite concord events.

00:01:23: One of them is the Concorso d'Eleganza Villa Desta, a true multilingual cosmopolitan who rarely says no to well-mixed negroni.

00:01:33: If there's a real version of James Bond in the automotive universe it absolutely him!

00:01:39: Please welcome to The Classic Driver Talks the one and only.

00:01:42: Simon Kittsten.

00:01:44: How do you like that intro?

00:01:46: My head is not going to fit out of this room afterwards.

00:01:49: Thank you very much, I'm wondering who you're talking about?

00:01:52: It's absolutely you Simon and we all know that!

00:01:55: thank you for spending time with us because We Know Your Schedule is like super full so we really appreciate it.

00:02:03: when classic driver comes calling Who could say no

00:02:06: That's kind of you two same.

00:02:08: Simon, I would like to start a little bit with the family history.

00:02:12: Because if you look at your father and uncle... ...and other family members cars have been played an important role.

00:02:20: So naturally someone like you as son or nephew needed also go on their car path.

00:02:26: Is that kind of right?

00:02:28: Not at all!

00:02:30: Not in the slightest But thanks for suggesting it.

00:02:36: I would say that cars in my family always played a secondary role.

00:02:43: Second to basically work, because cars were always a hobby and worked consisted mainly of either being the navy or army or farming And long time before that... I suppose you'd call it industry?

00:03:02: It was shipping up into Scotland.

00:03:06: Cars are just a hobby for my grandfather, well over a hundred years ago at the beginning of last century who loved his cars.

00:03:18: He was captain in The Black Watch – the Scottish Regiment and my uncle who raced Bugatti's, Bentley's amongst other.

00:03:26: but he was a Lieutenant Commander-in-the-Navy And my dad also was a lieutenant commander-in-'the-navy.

00:03:32: But then in World War II and then a farmer Nobody in my family ever worked in cars.

00:03:40: Nobody, I suspect... ...ever made a single penny by selling a car?

00:03:48: You bought it you enjoyed it and sold it but lost money.

00:03:51: But i was the generation that had to earn a living And somehow-by accident-I managed turn a passion for cars into a job whether that's a respectable job or not.

00:04:09: My forebears are no longer around to give an opinion, but I think it is great if you can turn something which you love and passion into career...into vocation?

00:04:29: And i was just incredibly lucky to be able do so!

00:04:38: Atmosphere of this is a hobby to enjoy and driving and racing make.

00:04:43: This profession is something.

00:04:46: Even if you're the first one in the family, I'm quite sure they would be quite proud of you.

00:04:52: i'm Very convinced.

00:04:53: think my dad who's no longer around it?

00:04:55: Would just be happy that actually had a job Because my beginnings were not terribly promising.

00:05:02: yeah

00:05:02: What is your earliest automotive memory though?

00:05:04: so what does do?

00:05:05: one thing that really stuck to your memory that you will not forget in connection with cars.

00:05:10: The click of the door handle, of the Porsche nine eleven when it was opened for a special trip because That Was A Car That Was Considered A Car For Not Just For Going Shopping But For Special Occasions And As A Small Kid Hearing that sound.

00:05:34: It's very distinctive, you know it hasn't changed that much in portion nine elevens over the years.

00:05:39: open the door opening The smell of the interior and I still have that car And it still smells the same all these years later.

00:05:46: Yeah?

00:05:46: I think it's a mixture of cheap German materials And the glue that holds them together and the wine of the of the Of the fuel injection as the ignition key turns and then obviously the bark of the engine when it fires up.

00:06:04: And I, of course in those days would sit on the back of that car which is not a very spacious place.

00:06:11: But you always felt the adrenaline rise and excitement going out into that car.

00:06:17: So this was my earliest memory along with long trips and frequent trips In the back BMW three litre SI saloon Which we used to drive from England to Italy.

00:06:30: It took three days, seemed to always take forever.

00:06:33: When are we getting there?

00:06:34: Punctuated by French hotels with no air conditioning and strange pillows And croissants.

00:06:41: that felt very foreign

00:06:44: Because you... With all the British connection You technically speaking grew up in Italy.

00:06:48: is it fair to say

00:06:49: Yeah I did from the age of eight?

00:06:51: It wasn't.

00:06:51: Siena

00:06:52: was on a very remote farm outside of Sienand The nearest house was a kilometer away.

00:06:58: this And it wasn't fancy by the way, and this was before Chianti Shire became fashionable.

00:07:06: It was hot there were mosquitoes no air conditioning black-and-white TV which only received local TV stations Which is how I learned Italian.

00:07:16: you didn't get foreign papers You don't get for a TV.

00:07:19: obviously the internet hadn't been invented so it was very remote upbringing and Car magazines as a kid were a way of discovering the whole difference and glamorous world.

00:07:34: And for this, was maybe also starting point to your love affair with very special car built in Santa Gata Bolognese?

00:07:41: That came little bit later.

00:07:42: I would say that as kid like most people my age The Kuntashe was the poster car...I remember the Observers book of automobiles This little hardback book which used get published every year about top trumps for cars The speed, the cost of power.

00:08:00: The engine size Cadillac was always the biggest.

00:08:04: True That's a love affair I don't mention much.

00:08:08: But yeah, the Kuntesh was something from another planet but i'd never seen any Lamborghini.

00:08:15: You didn't see those cars on the road certainly not in rural England and Not in Rural Italy.

00:08:21: So that is car you would read everything about when a magazine... magazine my dad used to get.

00:08:29: And you'd get these group tests, it would be the Kuntas against Ferrari Boxer or an Aston V-eight Vantage against a Porsche nine eleven turbo and you'd study their figures memorize them and use.

00:08:41: look at styling in think.

00:08:43: imagine if I could... You wouldn't even imagine driving like that?

00:08:46: Think of being a passenger on a car like that!

00:08:48: Yeah..and i remember all those long trips from the back BMW looking out window wondering whether one ever drive past and of course never did.

00:08:55: The Mura I only discovered thanks to the Italian job, The Film.

00:09:01: Which I never saw when it came out and was too young.

00:09:04: but later on at boarding school in Switzerland they had a VHS player which i'd never seen before And then put this film On The Italian Job and thought hey!

00:09:14: I recognize that road.

00:09:16: That's the road my dad takes me To School In At the beginning of Term Not an Amur.

00:09:21: Then there is This Cool Guy Driving It with the cigarette and sunglasses, music.

00:09:30: And I thought what is that?

00:09:34: Of course then you read more.

00:09:35: I remember Supercar Classics, The English Magazine did features on murals... ...and again would read every word to imagine it must be like but i didn't actually see one until I started in the car business age twenty-one.

00:09:49: when one finally arrived at the showroom where we worked I would stay late, and ask if i could clean it.

00:09:59: And then one day... I never did get to drive that but a few months later Amira SV showed up A white one with the blue interior.

00:10:09: I remember being delivered new to Malta Unusual place for us to have a hundred and seventy mile an hour supercar.

00:10:15: It had the owners crests.

00:10:16: The first owner's crest on doors Delivered me into big property guy there Who also couldn't touch And I begged my boss if it needs to be delivered somewhere.

00:10:26: To storage, could I please drive?

00:10:28: So eventually one of my colleagues said to me... ...I've been asked to deliver that car and know you really want to drive it.

00:10:36: You deliver

00:10:36: a nice-.

00:10:37: I took the longest route ever from Kensington to our storage Stopped off to see friends around London And i remember.. I must have driven this poor thing in first gear at six thousand revs just so showoff.

00:10:51: And I thought, hey that is the coolest car in the world.

00:10:57: So many years later... ...I finally saved up enough money to buy a basic mirror and started looking.

00:11:09: I couldn't really afford it, didn't even have at home.

00:11:13: Priorities Simon?

00:11:14: All about priorities!

00:11:16: If i spent more time on an S but then cheap SV was available because of being crashed repaired but crashed back in the seventies, and so God knows how.

00:11:29: But I managed to buy that.

00:11:31: it was a friend of a friend who owned it And although my first drive-in at tried to catch fire booked nice hotel for the weekend My new wife and i And basically, she sat having dinner inside and I was outside in the rain with a man from the AA breakdown service trying to identify where this smoke is coming.

00:11:51: But yeah that's exactly thirty years ago.

00:11:54: it has not ended despite many adventures along the way.

00:11:59: if you ask me what my single all-round favourite car is... ...despite other exciting things lucky enough for driving or handling There's always going to be a special space place in my heart for Amira.

00:12:14: What makes him your so special?

00:12:16: what is this magical thing about it?

00:12:18: let's take the film away, because... It'a

00:12:21: time capsule of late sixties and early seventies.

00:12:26: Italy.

00:12:28: I mentioned the Porsche RS before.

00:12:29: yeah amura is A snapshot Of The post-war Italian economic miracle, the style...the exuberance.

00:12:48: The joy of vivere, that goes with it!

00:12:53: The devil may care.

00:12:54: attitude if he looks good does not need to be reliable?

00:12:58: It is low and sexy and voluptuous.

00:13:04: The mechanics are impossibly exotic far more horsepower than you would need for any practical purpose.

00:13:13: It's relatively hot inside, it's very noisy inside.

00:13:17: Your luggage gets cooked but every drive is an experience and when you sit in it... You smell it!

00:13:25: People don't talk enough about the smell of cars like a pre-war Bugatti or Smell Of The Oil.

00:13:31: The smell of it just takes you back to another place.

00:13:35: that what makes it special When you get into that car in the reality of The Modern World.

00:13:46: You're a distant place which somehow seems more carefree, more romantic and just cooler...

00:13:55: Despite that you had a mirror at stage where we said it could not be afforded but wanted to have one?

00:14:04: I'm sorry!

00:14:04: We can still afford

00:14:06: it now or days maybe even more difficult in a sense But when we come into market situation later

00:14:11: Not too much market talk, please.

00:14:13: And not so much.

00:14:14: but it's also interesting to see your point of view on some points and that something we will touch in a very elegant way.

00:14:20: definitely no But what would be the way you have specced?

00:14:26: Your mirror going down is Lamborghini.

00:14:28: Kensington was at that time

00:14:30: Back into those days.

00:14:32: It wasn't in Kensington In a place called Ailey Street in London Nowadays its South Kensington.

00:14:40: So despite the fact you had your mirror, I would like to understand what will be this back?

00:14:47: How?

00:14:48: Would you have ordered a mirror back in London In The time when it was new.

00:14:53: What would be the perfect model and the perfect spec for You?

00:14:57: that's a good question which nobody has ever asked me before And i have To admit i'm not sure That i've ever thought of Before.

00:15:04: i'm here at Your service simon.

00:15:08: obviously the market coming Back to your earlier point favours the SV, but there's a lot to be said for the P-Four Hundred and the S just because they have more sixties Barbarella swinging sixties.

00:15:21: Can't it be street vibe?

00:15:22: To them The eyelashes, the skinny wheels And so on.

00:15:29: I think i'm gonna say that if It was a p four hundred depends On the year.

00:15:33: So let's say we're in nineteen sixty seven the Austin powers here.

00:15:37: right uh...it would Have to Be Gonna have to be lime green isn't?

00:15:45: With a with a beige interior and

00:15:50: Correspondent color Down would it be?

00:15:54: It was gonna have silver sills.

00:15:55: Yes, and silver wheels is going to have a beige.

00:15:58: it's Gonna Have a beige vinyl interior.

00:16:02: Cheap hot uncomfortable of course.

00:16:05: the way should be yeah if it's

00:16:07: for many a marriage is like that

00:16:12: If it's a Mura-S, and let say its'a late Mura S. We're getting into the seventies.

00:16:20: I'm probably going to say... It is gonna be gold?

00:16:26: Cool colour Yes.

00:16:28: And again we are having a lighter interior.

00:16:32: Probably a tobacco interior Might go for leather because that was then available And it will have gold sills.

00:16:41: That would look pretty funky.

00:16:43: And then if it was in SV, I forget any spec.

00:16:48: Although that wasn't a catalogue model for an SVJ, louder and badder even less practical makes a lot of noise... Here you've got to dilemma because what's typical is not always fashionable.

00:17:12: now

00:17:13: You

00:17:15: know now everything gets ordered in green because it's a cool color But very few and I mean sort of British racing.

00:17:20: Green is as you, no What does it oak green for Porsches?

00:17:24: Of course.

00:17:26: And i guess somebody today going back to seventy three would probably order something like that.

00:17:31: but i'm gonna say It's probably self-serving.

00:17:36: But i'm Gonna Say black Like my sv With A white leather interior About As Decadent as it Gets.

00:17:47: That would also fit very much the number plate of your Rolls-Royce.

00:17:51: Yes, it probably will.

00:17:54: And for those who don't know that It says on your Roll's Royce which is like you're a daily driver in The UK and Also You do it For Transcontinental Travels

00:18:02: Do you?

00:18:03: No I've got castes In The UK but Is my Daily Driver and i Probably do.

00:18:07: maybe Ten Thousand Miles A Year with them.

00:18:09: so quite a lot!

00:18:10: I drove it up to Liverpool from London in the snow for lunch and back to have lunch with a good client.

00:18:18: Number plate?

00:18:20: FU too!

00:18:21: Yes, we can't repeat what it says here because otherwise you got on the blacklist of that podcast.

00:18:26: but you could imagine... I like it because

00:18:29: hopefully i'm not a rude person But I liked it because its irreverent.

00:18:32: yes

00:18:33: It has sense of humour.

00:18:34: Totally

00:18:34: It is quite Austin Powers.

00:18:35: Yeah and as you may know that license plate which was issued long time ago before had modern connotations was on a mini back in the sixties,

00:18:46: which is also hilarious.

00:18:47: Yeah and then it was on V-twelve E type Roadster Which was owned by The Girlfriend of an adult entertainment baron who owns half of Soho.

00:19:00: so there's well known license plate around town Back In The Day And I liked...I like the historical side to it.

00:19:07: even now when you drive around London sometimes a cabbie in traffic will wind down his window and say, I remember that plate.

00:19:14: Yeah?

00:19:14: I remember when it was on an E-type.

00:19:17: It's...I think plates don't mean nothing.

00:19:21: They have been

00:19:22: trying to be hard.

00:19:24: So if you only had numbers like Switzerland where we can play with numbers You'd need super creative.

00:19:30: but the most creative country of having coded number place is UK.

00:19:39: Look, so seven becomes a letter or three.

00:19:43: But

00:19:44: if you have to think too hard to figure out what it is

00:19:47: then

00:19:48: that's

00:19:49: dangerous

00:19:49: and it's trying too hard?

00:19:50: Yeah absolutely I like the specs of your cars.

00:19:54: i think the SVJ would go for me in brown as well.

00:19:56: Yes definitely That will

00:19:58: be something that I would love.

00:19:59: Brown

00:20:00: would look great.

00:20:01: Brown SVs looked fantastic.

00:20:04: So I think its lovely spec ahead bold statement of black and white leather?

00:20:11: Well,

00:20:11: my SV has been in those colors since new.

00:20:16: It was ordered in those colours by a twenty-one year old whose dad said to him look if you sell that motorbike what I think it's Suzuki quite large displacement motor bike.

00:20:26: um i'll buy any car you want now good deal!

00:20:29: Quite how the twenty one had such a motorbike unless his dad bought it for him in the first place, I'm not entirely sure.

00:20:36: But as Dad said by any car you want and being twenty-one he thought oh have a Lamborghini!

00:20:43: And his father who was Mr.

00:20:44: Innocenti made cars knew Fruccia Lamborghini called them up went to see with the son and ordered this car

00:20:54: Made at the Italian way...I

00:20:56: make a call.

00:20:57: We cut out everyone in between, we go directly.

00:20:59: And I still have the order form with all of these hand-written notes... All the special spec outside filler rivets chromed bumpers and more powerful engine.

00:21:13: how it was more powerful he didn't specify that but probably more powerful just because you wrote exactly.

00:21:19: i think its written on paper.

00:21:21: so therefore

00:21:21: must be true

00:21:22: yeah absolutely um.

00:21:26: You know The story is about your cars very well.

00:21:29: I mean, we touched only on two for now but already it's really like... It's absolutely lovely to hear that there isn't just a car and not an investment.

00:21:39: There are stories behind the car.

00:21:41: How important is this fact?

00:21:43: Please see from both sides Also in your professional side.

00:21:49: how does it help gain interest?

00:21:52: if you have a car tell good story.

00:21:55: Is this entertaining for the clients you have?

00:21:58: Or do they just go for that car, that model... That specification.

00:22:02: If you had two identical cars and one was delivered to somebody famous or of course won a famous race And then another did nothing Then your going further with more interesting history When friends come around at home and see their car in garage.

00:22:22: It's more interesting if can tell them Something about it.

00:22:25: that is relatable, especially if they're not car people.

00:22:27: Yeah They may not be interested in how many horse power it has or there's got four-wheel drive Or other technical yeah geek facts.

00:22:39: But if it was owned by Elvis Steve McQueen one Le

00:22:43: Mans I mean That's I agree.

00:22:45: That's super special.

00:22:46: but

00:22:46: even If It Was Owned by a more normal person, but something interesting and I mean good not that ended up at the bottom of lake happened actually even with the Bugatti.

00:22:57: The Bugatti was also like...

00:22:59: Sometimes negative can be turned into positive?

00:23:02: Absolutely!

00:23:02: And this

00:23:03: wasn't... That's nice human story, the Bugati on top of Lake, maybe we'll come to it later.

00:23:09: I've always said cars are about people.

00:23:15: Cars bring together in our modern world.

00:23:18: That's why we're here today.

00:23:19: True,

00:23:20: absolutely.

00:23:20: Share

00:23:21: passion for this subject.

00:23:25: Cars were not made by themselves.

00:23:28: they are made my people.

00:23:29: I've said it many times before They were designed by people built bought raced restored and now looked after by People.

00:23:35: It is the human stories And that what i like to focus on at Villa d'Este.

00:23:40: Bring cars to life.

00:23:42: Otherwise there just inanimate objects I think anybody who's in this world loves discovering the backstory to something.

00:23:54: Absolutely!

00:23:57: In an ideal world, getting to know other people if you can track them down meeting them seeing their reaction when they're reunited with a car that they remembered from their youth That reminds of period and life perhaps long gone.

00:24:11: The human stories are what give cars depth.

00:24:19: To me, something that I might own personally should have an interesting story.

00:24:28: It means something to me.

00:24:29: whether it has a bearing on the value or not is to me secondary but it should have more than just two dimensions...it should have three dimensions.

00:24:42: and that third dimension is The History!

00:24:46: And that's what i try to find out when preparing for Villadeste and commentary over two days to find the stories that perhaps haven't been found before.

00:24:58: And That's what takes time

00:24:59: yes,

00:24:59: but even the owners may not know or they may no one think are interesting.

00:25:04: and To flesh those out I've talked too long bit like now.

00:25:09: yeah

00:25:10: It's okay it's a podcast because if you're talking it

00:25:13: Takes Time to Find Those Stories?

00:25:16: And it's Not Just by The way.

00:25:17: at the best is not just me doing that work.

00:25:20: I have a colleague in particular, Steve Wakefield who you know well.

00:25:27: A former classic driver manager?

00:25:28: He

00:25:30: came from the right school and Steve and I and others spend a lot of time doing that research.

00:25:38: it distinguishes one car form another.

00:25:41: This is something which is also the most entertaining factor.

00:25:45: You see me browsing through the Classic Driver Market.

00:25:49: So this is what I do in my seeing which new cars came, and not that i can afford them.

00:25:52: but you find like hilariously stories In the descriptions.

00:25:57: And have to say some

00:25:58: of it might even be true

00:26:00: Very rare, but they might be.

00:26:02: and if they're not true.

00:26:03: They are very well told.

00:26:04: so I think that's also okay.

00:26:06: That is AI for

00:26:08: you.

00:26:09: You know your trade better than anyone else.

00:26:12: Your colleagues in there No joking apart.

00:26:14: So i'm browse through the classic driver market And see a car that interests me could be a Range Rover Could Be A Two point seven RS or whatever And then Reading The Stories Behind That Whether True Or Not Or Here Say Whatever It Is Makes it Also.

00:26:30: the listing makes it special.

00:26:33: And that's also what your colleagues do very well, they really like put in whole history and hilariously most entertaining one are those of our private sellers.

00:26:46: So individuals that don't use the trade, they just say okay I have one car for sale and do it on my own could also be very special.

00:26:52: And remember when Alves was for sale?

00:26:55: He said he might be produced in a backseat of this car saying... It's like you shouldn't

00:27:00: sell your car!

00:27:01: Yeah

00:27:01: i think so too.

00:27:03: You are well connected to the car.

00:27:05: This is why we encourage everyone.

00:27:07: if you feel bored funny, entertaining stuff.

00:27:11: You can go to the Atari of Classic Driver but you also browse through a market and read the description of cars because you find hilarious stories.

00:27:17: And as I said...I'm with Classic Driver for over two decades now so i have lots of stories that I tell in conversations like this.

00:27:25: I found in descriptions of cars for sale.

00:27:29: So thats very interesting.

00:27:30: But coming back too to Villa Desta Because we just put as a part of our feature film, our forty minute documentary which is by the way live on our classic or YouTube channel.

00:27:43: I'm sure you've watched it many times!

00:27:45: Oh

00:27:46: its on repeat and thankyou for grabbing me when i was walking through that bar to do this.

00:27:53: The importance was to grab before your event

00:27:57: whilst still had some

00:27:58: voice there because what people can't imagine... don't know how many words you speak because he do it in two languages sometimes three so its Italian English and Sometimes French, and

00:28:15: I Probably go over my word count if yeah ever been calculated.

00:28:19: Yeah It's about four hours each day.

00:28:20: Yeah should be three and a half But

00:28:23: yeah but i mean is like that there's

00:28:25: So much to say.

00:28:25: yes we don't want to miss out on this fantastic story because as with that makes the cars And?

00:28:31: I Know i'm repeating myself The cars in my opinion deserve it.

00:28:36: The owners who spend a lot of money to own the cars and bring them there, I think... I hope enjoy it!

00:28:44: And maybe most important for all the public For whom its sometimes big financial sacrifice To go into fancy event like that Quite long way to travel some of those And i think they deserve show.

00:29:00: Hopefully they enjoyed But

00:29:02: Im sure do.

00:29:03: But otherwise it's just a very nice beauty parade.

00:29:09: Yeah, but if I went to an art museum and walked around... ...I wouldn't have a clue regarding what i was looking at If had guide.

00:29:19: It

00:29:19: makes the whole thing more relevant and I remember it afterwards.

00:29:23: It's very important that the guide has to be entertaining, i don't need someone who reads out everything they find on Wikipedia or an eye agent.

00:29:32: Every

00:29:32: guide is going give their own personality Small way.

00:29:51: try to do.

00:29:52: I think it's a. It's an.

00:29:54: it's very important part of this and i don't say This because, so you know me that i mean it really?

00:29:59: Because i'm i really enjoy listening To this.

00:30:02: Speaking about the concord event was all we have big ones or The big one is like villadesta pebble beach.

00:30:09: Several others had also played big role.

00:30:11: they want to mention now every single One Winning at these shows.

00:30:17: Is That Also increased the value Of A car Or not?

00:30:24: I think if it's a sufficiently important show, like Pebble Beach or Villa d'Este then arguably yes.

00:30:34: It is another story to tell maybe?

00:30:35: Arguably

00:30:38: the more significant car The less important.

00:30:42: such of victory is A little bit like period racing history.

00:30:47: A Mini that has won the Monty Is worth a lot more than standard car.

00:30:51: Absolutely

00:30:51: right.

00:30:51: Yeah Ferrari

00:30:52: two fifty GTO That one a significant race is worth, yes a bit more than another GTO but it's not a multiplier.

00:31:00: It's a few percentage.

00:31:02: So if a Bugatti Atlantique wins Pebble Beach does help?

00:31:09: Yes Does it transform the value of car?

00:31:12: No If a more humble car does so against all odds then has bigger effect.

00:31:16: Yeah I think that has some effects But its'nt perhaps as big you would think.

00:31:26: I agree with this A hundred percent and I think it's just adding to the story.

00:31:30: And you mentioned like if a two-fifth GTO won in non significant rays rather than a Significant one where he famous one You as someone who is in The trade.

00:31:42: In the trade there's a

00:31:43: fair to say.

00:31:44: Hey, i mean A sheepskin

00:31:46: coat and flat cap ring about it.

00:31:48: But yes, you're absolutely right!

00:31:49: I mean

00:31:49: sometimes that's my way.

00:31:50: this is the only where i can pull your legs a little bit because You are the impossible guy to really put yourself.

00:31:58: Pull yourself out of the corner.

00:32:00: So no...you being in the business of cars?

00:32:04: Yes Absolutely Yeah..You've

00:32:05: been In The Business Of Cars.

00:32:07: Let's Put It That Way

00:32:09: Is it...?

00:32:09: Now you make me sound like a modern BMW dealer.

00:32:13: yeah You know let's.

00:32:15: You said you said used cardila.

00:32:17: I stick to that.

00:32:18: yeah, whatever you know what?

00:32:19: I mean.

00:32:19: But let me come to the question because it's very interesting.

00:32:22: as someone who has contact with this with the client with clients Do you think you feel immediately and i've come back today.

00:32:33: comparison of The non-important race at the important race or well known race winning car.

00:32:40: Is It Important To Listen?

00:32:41: Because They Say ah you Know I was in nineteen sixty nine I was at this small race and saw a Ferrari two-fifty short wheelbase racing there.

00:32:51: Is that something you then recognize?

00:32:53: By the way, we have... It didn't win the Port Vest but you can add some value to it as well.

00:32:59: When you say that are talking about potential buyers

00:33:02: saying...?

00:33:02: Potential buyer sorry!

00:33:05: I've always been an incurable Romantic and nostalgic which

00:33:13: is true.

00:33:14: You are you truly are.

00:33:16: That's yeah, one of the things that drives my my passion for cars to other people.

00:33:21: it might be investment.

00:33:22: Yeah whatever.

00:33:23: I Always love at a chance To Reunite somebody with something Which they remember from their youth them?

00:33:32: It makes him happy there gives them A good feeling.

00:33:36: so if Somebody says oh i remember an ex when I was a kid, if they're let's say a normal person.

00:33:44: I'd love to reunite them with it anyway.

00:33:47: If there are big car collector and have the potential actually own something like that then of course i'm gonna suggest that too many people buy cars from their youth or at least start out with those cars.

00:34:03: They may progress beyond Often.

00:34:08: that's the spark.

00:34:10: That starts there, the collecting journey.

00:34:13: when I was a kid?

00:34:14: I had my nose up against the showroom window and those are new e-type or on you Ferrari Daytona or F forty in their And then hopefully after they've owned them if enough to do so they'll say to themselves Okay So this is a great car but what came before it?

00:34:31: What led to this?

00:34:33: and then Start to look into the back catalogue, learn more about the subject and want to expand their knowledge... ...and collection.

00:34:43: Since nineteen ninety-eight Classic Driver is THE place online To find iconic classics like an Slamart in DB Five or modern sports cars Like the latest Porsche GT III RS.

00:34:55: At Classic Driver you'll find offerings from most important dealers The most trusted auction houses but also from private sellers.

00:35:02: So if you're thinking of buying a new car for your collection or selling, head over to Classic Driver!

00:35:11: Do you see a shift in your clients' to the more younger side?

00:35:16: There is definitely a shift... ...in the current market towards younger cars and that's shifted accelerated during Covid when buying anything online was attractive, people were bored.

00:35:32: People who are at home and... And people we're looking for ways to entertain themselves.

00:35:39: And online auctions of cars in particular In our world accelerated a lot.

00:35:45: The cars that you can buy more easily online Are younger cars True Because once you've got beyond the specification and mileage It's not much else You need to worry about.

00:35:56: The older cars require More let say connoisseurship or at least research, care because there is good but also bad.

00:36:10: And therefore that focused a lot of attention on the younger cars which shot up in value during that period.

00:36:18: Incredibly actually!

00:36:19: Incredibly so... There was obviously a lull afterwards and thats now picked-up for certain specific cars limited edition Ferrari's and Porsches in particular the so-called F cars, two ATH GTOs, a forty or fifty and so on in Ferrari terms.

00:36:35: Porsche Carrera GT, Porsche Nine Eighteen... ...and others like them.

00:36:41: Is that a permanent change?

00:36:43: is it a demographic change ?

00:36:45: Is there a generational change...?

00:36:47: Or.. ..is it a temporary fashion..?

00:36:51: I won't say fad but let's say fashion!

00:36:54: I think its bit of both

00:36:56: Interesting.

00:37:00: I'm tempted to draw parallels with Nvidia and Bitcoin, other financial investments.

00:37:10: And the old saying that beanstalk can't grow to the sky... The current price increases are sustainable in this segment of market.

00:37:28: There's some cars at the moment which look glaringly obvious

00:37:35: values,

00:37:37: Lancia Aurelia Spider.

00:37:39: One was sold in the auction I think at Villa Erba for € three hundred thousand plus commission.

00:37:45: may not be the best one in the world but that is a model which in the past has sold as much as two million dollars at auction.

00:37:54: it doesn't make sense now That price.

00:37:59: I mean a Ferrari short, two-fifty short wheelbase is sold for the same amount like an Enzo.

00:38:05: that also does not make sense and

00:38:06: doesn't make sense

00:38:07: now.

00:38:07: An Enso as we all know in an unusual color combination was sold for was it seventeen million dollars?

00:38:16: back in January another one In an unusual but not quite as unusual or maybe slightly higher mileage were sold for twelve.

00:38:23: i think No, an Enso is a perfectly nice car.

00:38:27: Don't get me wrong absolutely.

00:38:28: Is it a landmark car?

00:38:31: Did it race?

00:38:32: no What is the rationale for that car being worth that money when you could buy a Ferrari short wheelbase even a competition short wheel base?

00:38:42: There's the road version.

00:38:43: there's the racing version Which was very successful which was a landmark Car which was one of the cars that contributed to the Ferrari legend before the GTA.

00:38:51: Absolutely

00:38:52: did.

00:38:53: How is it possible?

00:38:54: look That we're even talking about those two models in the same breath?

00:38:58: now some people are gonna say ah yes, but they're short wheelbases Sixty years ago.

00:39:03: Nobody remembers those cars when they were new.

00:39:08: The end so is more relevant to them for their Bitcoin generation and maybe it is.

00:39:14: But hmm who remembers a bugatti at long teeth from when it was?

00:39:18: knew nobody.

00:39:19: You show that car to most people?

00:39:20: They're going to still say yes Wow, that is a work of art.

00:39:25: if they hear it start up, they're going to say wow that sounds really good.

00:39:29: If they drive it then not gonna be impassive... It is going to move them literally and emotionally.

00:39:38: so I don't think you have to have been alive when a car was....I don't remember the mural when i was young..it was yeah i was a baby.

00:39:48: um So I don' t think Simplify to that extent and just say, people are buying the cars from their youth.

00:39:56: That will keep on changing.

00:39:57: by that logic.

00:39:58: one day nobody is going to want a Ferrari F-forty because there's gonna be A Day when Nobody remembers an F-Forty or an Enzo.

00:40:05: so I don't think you can simplify it that much.

00:40:08: i always come back To The Rule of Intrinsic Value over Financial Value.

00:40:16: Intrnsic value which Is the Real Value

00:40:19: Which

00:40:20: Does not necessarily change with time.

00:40:22: The financial value.

00:40:23: does anybody who tells you that oh, it's only gonna grow up in value They're either selling it to you or they're naive.

00:40:31: Intrinsic value is the rarity but it's also the aesthetics It's the engineering sophistication of the engineering.

00:40:39: it Is how superior?

00:40:43: That object was and not just cars to the opposition when it came out.

00:40:47: That's a very important

00:40:48: point, that is a mark of greatness like a gullwing Mercedes or Ferrari GTO, countless other cars that we could McLaren F-One and also which I think will probably come back too later who bought it?

00:41:01: Was it brought by the right people?

00:41:03: was it bought for the right reasons?

00:41:04: good point i've never looked at that point.

00:41:07: When you think of owning a car You're often going to look at Who else owns it what type of person knows And do you want to be part of that group?

00:41:18: Can I say, might make myself unpopular.

00:41:21: That held back Veyron's for a long time...

00:41:26: ...I disagree!

00:41:28: For a long Time.

00:41:29: yeah

00:41:29: i disagree.

00:41:30: not saying necessarily now..

00:41:33: I mean and use also knew some of the new clients who bought New Averro from Bugatti.

00:41:43: Some I would agree Someone would agree, but I mean there's also like some boys named like Arnold Schwarzenegger and others right don't forget that.

00:41:51: That's Arnold Schwarcenegger is cool There's no question.

00:41:54: i'm thinking Some of the people that you see Outside well-known department stores Making themselves Unpopular And some other.

00:42:06: some are the specs.

00:42:07: yeah think to yourself Really?

00:42:10: Yeah in that extent.

00:42:11: I think it's a very light.

00:42:12: They took the liberty of freedom of expression quite to their heart in some of the specs.

00:42:18: Just because you can do something doesn't always mean that you should too,

00:42:21: yeah?

00:42:22: That's

00:42:23: not for sure.

00:42:24: and I probably want talk about this model car.

00:42:26: The McLaren F-One

00:42:27: Yes

00:42:28: Look at who bought it from a very outset

00:42:32: And look at the specs.

00:42:34: Yeah most of them Not entirely

00:42:37: Almost

00:42:38: almost all.

00:42:38: Which one is the one...I'm

00:42:40: gonna say but there are one or two You have to say please.

00:42:43: No, there are one or two that did come into the can do rather than should-do category.

00:42:50: I try to

00:42:51: recall which car you're meaning because if they know too... If you don't say it There's two ways Just acknowledge my bad taste Because i couldn't recall those cars.

00:43:03: Or It is so awful That we really didn't want

00:43:05: to share.

00:43:06: No its not that awful.

00:43:08: I've seen a lot worse with other brands.

00:43:11: Look at who bought those cars.

00:43:14: Ralph Lauren, Nick Mason Jay Leno All people Thomas Pecher all People Who others look up to yes for their car collecting taste yeah and credentials

00:43:29: Yeah.

00:43:29: And also I think that's really important people who are known To have brought That car For what it is Rather than speculation.

00:43:38: But when I remember correctly, it was also not an easy sell if we speak to David Clark

00:43:43: exactly

00:43:44: It wasn't a tough one.

00:43:44: You did not buy that car for speculation.

00:43:46: No you bought at the worst possible time in there in the world economy.

00:43:52: We have to mention George Harrison by the way.

00:43:54: George

00:43:54: Harrison absolutely almost certainly expecting That he's gonna go down and value which is what she did massively For a long time.

00:44:02: but it was worth half of its new price When it was just a few years old.

00:44:05: And look at they the trend.

00:44:07: it did the journey it did.

00:44:09: But who knew?

00:44:10: And that's what is really important, when you bought that car and were taking a leap of faith You weren't doing for speculation.

00:44:18: I think thats very important.

00:44:20: It gives credibility to object and people who brought this

00:44:26: This point i'm hundred percent with your and im surprised was not following this kind logic also in my way or thinking about What Is The Reason Why Some Cars Get perfect Nimbus, a perfect view from the outside world.

00:44:42: And that's very important part.

00:44:44: and we have to say there is also another famous owner of an F-One Simon Kittsden.

00:44:53: I was a late comer for this party.

00:44:57: I remember when it came out.

00:44:59: David Clark took me on a drive in one.

00:45:01: I was just young salesman so

00:45:02: we had to say David

00:45:04: Clark is the former Salesman headset I suppose you probably say commercial direct to

00:45:09: commercial directly

00:45:09: of McLaren.

00:45:10: Yes back in the F one road car era and he was responsible The man responsible for selling them.

00:45:16: yet not an easy task.

00:45:17: when it was six hundred thousand pounds

00:45:19: something like this And

00:45:21: the world economy was still largely in freefall interest rates in the UK were fifteen percent.

00:45:27: Everybody was tanking.

00:45:28: what we look crazy.

00:45:30: That was not an Easy sell, but David is a very very persuasive Man on a Very well-connected One.

00:45:36: He turned up to see my boss in the demonstrator, which he was using.

00:45:40: it's a show around.

00:45:43: At the end of meeting with my boss and I wasn't invited... David could first name terms quite old for me but as a salesman?

00:45:52: Of course!

00:45:52: Twenty-three year old or whatever.

00:45:53: And think i can get a ride.

00:45:56: just go on the block.

00:45:58: Me an colleague Vanessa both got a ride this car first gear, second-gear third-geared fourth gear.

00:46:07: No accelerator!

00:46:08: Just lift up the clutch no throttle away.

00:46:11: it went Second Third Fourth.

00:46:12: that was body trick and then floor It yeah And it just took off like a scalded cat.

00:46:19: I've mentioned this before all The builders on the scaffolding of On the road we were on on Gloucester Road All turned around open mouth to think what was that?

00:46:29: That's pretty cool It is.

00:46:31: And it just stuck with me.

00:46:32: and then years, and years later when I was doing a documentary A friend lent me his GTR... ...I couldn't drive because of insurance only his own driver could.

00:46:42: i was in the passenger seat.. ..and.... I could not believe how intense it was!

00:46:47: It wasn' t the Middle East.

00:46:48: We passed poor cyclist about that far away and I watched him wobbling at the rear view mirror.

00:46:55: I hate to think what speed we were going but there's cloud behind us.

00:46:58: so I came back On the flight that night thinking, I have to have one of those cars.

00:47:04: One day even though no way i could afford it.

00:47:06: so took a few more years.

00:47:07: but you have good track record on your car and want them to get them Miura.

00:47:17: That's emotional Simon.

00:47:18: When i got something into my head i won't normally give up

00:47:22: And if i remember correctly say its wrong.

00:47:27: But You F-One had a fantastic chassis number, wasn't it?

00:47:32: Double O seven.

00:47:33: Here we go.

00:47:34: I mean did you board for that reason?

00:47:36: or was just really pure coincidence

00:47:38: Nostalgia?

00:47:39: um i had sold it for the first owner.

00:47:43: yeah as uh young auctioneer.

00:47:44: uh three hundred and fifty thousand pounds by the way

00:47:48: plus premium

00:47:49: plus premium only one bidder Only One Bidder.

00:47:53: That

00:47:54: Was A Tough Sale.

00:47:55: Then As Well

00:47:55: September Ninety Eight Paris He drove down from Yorkshire in his M-Five BMW, owned a nightclub.

00:48:02: Placed the soul winning bid and drove home.

00:48:07: a happy man who's still our friend now all these years later.

00:48:10: And he has had some great other cars by the way including an F-One GTR.

00:48:13: but it is long list of cool things that he have.

00:48:18: So I sold at when i was young chassis double O seven black like my mirror good spec Roadcar know how to hide.

00:48:31: downforce kit elegant subtle just the way.

00:48:35: personally I like it to be.

00:48:37: so yeah, that was The one if i could get it.

00:48:40: Yeah That I wanted and I couldn't.

00:48:43: we'll get it?

00:48:44: I didn't know who owned It years later.

00:48:47: So I managed again.

00:48:50: Didn't really deserve it but I managed To buy another One from a friend remortgaged my house Gave him My gullwing in my first gulling in part exchange Somehow made the ends meet.

00:49:04: Went to collect the car at McLaren.

00:49:07: Happiest man in the world.

00:49:08: Yeah dream come true.

00:49:11: Except that what's behind it?

00:49:13: chassis double o seven

00:49:15: done perfect

00:49:17: perfection turns to Almost perfection, yeah Wow who knows who owns it?

00:49:26: It's not for sale wasn't meant to be.

00:49:29: The next day I'm in the office is late.

00:49:31: somebody calls.

00:49:34: Now speak to Simon Kiddston.

00:49:36: I'm told you're the man to speak about McLaren F ones.

00:49:38: I have one, I'd like to sell.

00:49:40: so which one is it?

00:49:42: It's black.

00:49:42: its chassis double o seven.

00:49:45: Just one day after ping.

00:49:47: One or two days are really.

00:49:49: um i've already bought this car.

00:49:51: yeah Okay, I'll set it for you.

00:49:54: happily first person.

00:49:55: they call up big collector Ferrari gto lots of other nice things.

00:50:00: Yeah, so I don't really feel that I need to own a McLaren F-One.

00:50:03: But

00:50:04: what a sentence is there?

00:50:06: I won't tell you the accent otherwise You'll know who it was.

00:50:09: but he's great negotiator.

00:50:10: That's why hesitated to do.

00:50:13: And...but even if i did have one..I Don't like black cars.

00:50:20: Maybe a silver one.

00:50:22: Aha We come back here.

00:50:26: So A bit of creative thinking later He had a silver F-one and I have the black one.

00:50:33: And that lasted for ten years?

00:50:35: Great, great memories which will stay with me forever.

00:50:38: Some

00:50:38: things are meant to be... That's the secret!

00:50:42: Or

00:50:45: you just have make them happen and think out of the box.

00:50:48: Yeah..I

00:50:49: mean it is good.

00:50:52: say this as one your superpowers.

00:50:56: thinking outside off the box.

00:50:58: I hate to sound cliched, but i think it all comes back down to passion.

00:51:02: If you love something enough and if you want something absolutely somehow You will figure out a way to make it happen.

00:51:10: And you made also?

00:51:11: Something very incredible happened.

00:51:12: at least you were part of it because for the longest time being FRI two fifty GTO was the most expensive car ever sold.

00:51:22: that changed.

00:51:25: my Germanic side is absurdly proud of this.

00:51:30: This change because German

00:51:31: honor was restored, yeah?

00:51:34: It wasn't ever de-restored is what's just partially given away to have others also enjoying it at a good time.

00:51:40: you know how we Germans are very open and caring about us.

00:51:45: Let me let be face so.

00:51:46: You were part of the change of custodian chip.

00:51:49: I think that sounds very elegant.

00:51:50: That's

00:51:50: A Very Good Choice Of Words

00:51:51: Of The Ullenhout Tell Us More About That.

00:51:54: The Three SLR So First Of All Tells More About The Car.

00:51:57: mythical car, a handful built purely for racing by Mercedes with typical Teutonic single-mindedness.

00:52:06: No ex spent spared.

00:52:09: all the company's engineering might thrown at it and The result was a car that completely dominated Racing during their only season in which he competed in nineteen fifty five crazy One everything except for Le Mans from which it retired after a tragic accident involving another car other Mercedes whilst leading the race.

00:52:36: and despite that, It won.

00:52:38: The world championship.

00:52:39: Mercedes withdrew from racing with nothing left to prove And the surviving cars were put into the museum.

00:52:47: Never ever ever to be sold.

00:52:50: yes

00:52:51: pretty much the most dominant Racing car or certainly sports racing car.

00:52:57: I would say so apart from Grand Prix cars

00:52:59: also in terms of development So many things that we saw and later racing absolutely

00:53:05: Years ahead of its time.

00:53:06: years

00:53:06: had

00:53:07: as We said before head and shoulders above the opposition The true mark Of yeah classic, but the cars go into the museum some of them are loaned to other museums But none is ever sold despite Many approaches.

00:53:25: and that's not short-term decision, that's a forever policy.

00:53:30: One of these cars will never be sold.

00:53:31: they are our crown jewels.

00:53:33: the open cars which raced and just two gullwing coupe closed cars were built to be raced but it was not intended for the Carrera Panamericana or the high speed South American race

00:53:50: so very close to netted too

00:53:52: hence more aerodynamic

00:53:54: and very close connected to a genius engineering name.

00:53:58: The two closed cars were occasionally used by Rudy Uhlenhout, the chief engineer of the project as his so-called company.

00:54:11: Having been lucky enough to drive one of them it increases my respect for him.

00:54:16: not just an engineer but also driver is Unintimidating car to drive on the road.

00:54:27: Yeah clutch, the gear change and above all The noise And there's an awful lot of it especially in the closed.

00:55:03: I mean that's a reason why he needed To push the car out Of his driveway.

00:55:08: because the neighbors when He'd left tomorrow going In the morning i think direction zindelfingen uh here to push It A bit away Because he had some very Typical German Very like Arguments with His neighbors About the Noise of the Car.

00:55:22: That' s the hearsay.

00:55:22: Can you

00:55:22: imagine this modest suburban German house back in the fifties with a three hundred SLR sitting outside it.

00:55:30: Yeah, if anybody had told them that one day or what?

00:55:34: One day That car would have been worth which presumably was the value of the entire street They would have scoffed off course and they certainly wouldn't have left the car outside.

00:55:43: no but for those reasons that model of car acquired this mythical unicorn status amongst car enthusiasts and collectors because you just couldn't have it.

00:55:57: It had won everything, it looked like really nothing else.

00:56:01: if you put that next to a normal gullwing.

00:56:03: the closed-car okay?

00:56:05: The doors open upwards in its got four wheels but that's pretty much where the similarities end.

00:56:09: Just look at the length of the bonnet.

00:56:11: eight cylinders versus six the stubby exhausts with blackened tips out the side.

00:56:16: You know before it even starts, this is not going to be a quiet car.

00:56:21: The details on everything... It's just typical Mercedes' attention-to detail and efficiency.

00:56:29: So I'm sure i am NOT the only person that thought THAT was the ultimate.

00:56:36: Also because of its unobtainability And this has been held for many years.

00:56:42: If you look at some articles from the fifties Rob Walker, famous British gentleman driver and team owner went to the factory.

00:56:48: Big Mercedes client bought I think three gullwings on a Roadster.

00:56:53: I politely inquired he wrote in his column at Motorsport with the director if one of... If a .-SLR might be available?

00:57:00: Absolutely not came there reply although probably in polite, politer German terms.

00:57:07: so fast forward many years i'd seen an SLR on the retrospective millimilia was struck by the noise, the presence as this thing went by gobbling up every other little red car in its path.

00:57:22: What was that?

00:57:23: That was a three hundred SLR and it was driven by Stirling Moss who is reprising his old route in his old car with his old co-driver when I went to The Mercedes Museum i would see that car buy.

00:57:38: any books came out on.

00:57:40: there weren't very many then.

00:57:43: over years you You meet people and acquire clients and friends.

00:57:50: And one of these Friends, Clients said to me casually chatting as you do with friends not thinking it will ever lead to anything.

00:58:00: Um...You've always said Simon that the three hundred SLR is probably the greatest car in the world In collecting terms and then they'll never be sold.

00:58:11: But what have we got to lose?

00:58:14: By trying?

00:58:15: yeah I must admit, did not expect him to say that.

00:58:19: Came as a surprise but this is somebody who I respect great deal.

00:58:26: Somebody quite softly spoken But i know when he says something it's... He means it's bulletproof.

00:58:33: Not many other people would have listened and acted upon That question Fast forward A while and I was invited to the Mercedes-Benz factory boardroom, asked to present a case.

00:59:00: And few months later... ...I was informed that there would be a private auction That maximum of ten bidders would be invited from around the world.

00:59:13: If i'd like to attend To represent my client It will very pleased.

00:59:21: Who was the auction?

00:59:22: house?

00:59:22: arms at the we.

00:59:23: so who wasn't walking?

00:59:24: that

00:59:25: don't ask me to say that okay?

00:59:28: Was a well-known

00:59:30: auction with

00:59:30: it.

00:59:30: Well known auction house.

00:59:31: Okay, without but whom?

00:59:32: I have a good relationship Yeah But for compliance reasons Mercedes needed to hold All be it's very small one yet nonetheless and auctioned to determine what the fair market price would be.

00:59:50: And you know one of the most memorable days of my life.

00:59:58: I could imagine.

01:00:01: Adrenaline, emotion disbelief.

01:00:09: Can you tell us about a setting or is it completely confidential?

01:00:12: Like how do we have to... Is there an auctioneer who opens envelopes?

01:00:17: There's a private room at The Mercedes-Benz Museum.

01:00:20: i turn up and drive through the Mercedes museum in my gullwing obviously My father's gullwings.

01:00:28: I just thought that was a nice historical symmetry.

01:00:31: It would have been much more comfortable to drive there in a modern car, but this is really special day.

01:00:37: so i drove there and the gullwing um Was told at the museum was closed for private events.

01:00:46: sorry come back again tomorrow?

01:00:48: No no!

01:00:48: I'm here for that event.

01:00:50: oh you'll have to go To The Public Car Park.

01:00:53: Drove all the way around to the public car park collected my parking ticket

01:00:58: which you have to pay for.

01:00:59: Yes,

01:00:59: five euros I've still got the receipt.

01:01:01: good went into the museum where finally somebody from Mercedes did meet me and whisked me off to a private room um and then at the designated time was invited to go through these cement or concrete back corridors in dust very industrial.

01:01:18: it's like going on... Like i imagine going onto the stage at a concert and going through the backstage first fire escape, and then black door opens.

01:01:31: And there's this great big I think circular room where... I wasn't allowed to take any photographs.

01:01:41: There is the silhouette of a car under a cover.

01:01:46: There was an auctioneer podium rostrum next to it.

01:01:50: There are some small load tables like these four with three chairs around each one rather than conventional rows or seating.

01:02:00: So you already know it, this is going to be a very small auction.

01:02:03: And what I would describe as a barrage of telephones on a long table against one wall and You sort-of know that's gonna Be your opposition.

01:02:17: The tables are empty.

01:02:20: i go and choose One and sit down at It.

01:02:23: and i should add That i had received not Long before A contract about that thick as to the bidding terms, which were rather more onerous than most auctions.

01:02:38: So that took an awful long time together with a German lawyer to go through.

01:02:46: The room is largely empty.

01:02:49: One by one people file in and start to occupy their telephones.

01:02:53: Eventually the auctioneer walks in calls the room toward it with his gavel.

01:03:02: I'm

01:03:02: the only person that's turned up in person to represent a bidder or to bid on this car.

01:03:08: The auctioneer invites the head of Mercedes, the Mercedes-Benz Museum To make a speech which he does and tells us what the car is.

01:03:19: Thank you There's a video.

01:03:24: Very nice!

01:03:27: The cover has whisked off the car and the bidding starts.

01:03:31: I think it was at fifty million euros, which would already be an auction record.

01:03:35: The auction record i think is forty nine point five million dollars for a Ferrari GTS set in twenty eighteen from memory.

01:03:45: And uh... Bidding Starts Now..I don't want to give away too many secrets but

01:03:52: Do.

01:03:54: Every bidder has their opinion as the best way to bid and I'm not sure that there is any.

01:03:59: honestly, but as an ex auctioneer you probably have a little bit more insight than the average person.

01:04:11: Some people like to get in early so let the auctioneers know they're interested.

01:04:15: So he keeps his eye open for them.

01:04:18: Others prefer to wait until their very last minute.

01:04:21: In this instance i figured if nobody else was there Or at least, sorry.

01:04:28: The client most importantly that I was representing was interested.

01:04:33: Bidding kicks off fifty-fifty five sixties and a pretty pretty punchy increments that would buy very nice car on their own.

01:04:46: A hundred is reached.

01:04:52: Pretty serious territory.

01:04:53: Yeah here we go!

01:04:55: You're now double the world auction record for a car.

01:05:00: you're at more than has ever been paid for a car before.

01:05:04: The record, nobody knows exactly what the private sale record was of that time but it's probably about seventy million euros or seventy-eight million dollars for very good Ferrari two fifty GTs in a private sale.

01:05:19: so you really are uncharted territory.

01:05:22: this is big player stuff and you have to stay calm and rational.

01:05:33: play

01:05:34: cool

01:05:36: Not yeah, not just play cool but remain rational and think to yourself.

01:05:41: I'm representing a client.

01:05:42: This is not my money It's a huge amount of money.

01:05:45: What is the right thing?

01:05:46: To do Yeah

01:05:49: Do you get briefed beforehand?

01:05:50: so we have like an outline range where you can go agreed with the client

01:05:56: loosely

01:05:57: Okay very dangerous grounds.

01:05:58: on these numbers i would say it's big

01:06:00: responsibility Very more loosely than one might expect.

01:06:10: There's a lot of mutual trust there, I said before wouldn't do this.

01:06:14: for many people.

01:06:20: the bidders start to thin out.

01:06:22: i'm listening carefully to the telephone bitters who aren't that far away from me to hear what language they're speaking and I won't betray their confidence until finally.

01:06:32: there is just one left.

01:06:35: we are still in The Running The first time in history that a Mercedes-Benz three hundred SLR has been sold and it's one of the two Ulinhaut coupes Which aesthetically, It is personal thing.

01:07:01: I think are even more attractive than the open cars.

01:07:08: i've Often said That Is the Mona Lisa of cars.

01:07:12: for that reason most objects Have Been Sold before.

01:07:21: there is some comparable Either that object or a similar one to it.

01:07:27: You can decide to pay double, three times of four times Or exactly the same as what its sold for before.

01:07:33: Or less!

01:07:34: But you have some basis Here.

01:07:35: you have no frame of reference None.

01:07:40: It's the first time when these cars has ever been sold.

01:07:42: Its probably in our lifetimes.

01:07:45: The only time is going be sold.

01:07:49: Somebody else willing to pay five million dollars less?

01:07:55: Two million dollars less three million dollars.

01:07:56: That's the.

01:07:57: those were the increments by that stage.

01:07:59: Wow, you'd go up one twenty one twenty two one twenty five on twenty eight.

01:08:03: one thirty One thirty to his bid and straight back at him.

01:08:10: One thirty-five Arbid a little bit.

01:08:14: so let them know that we still had gas in the tank.

01:08:16: Yeah to user yes popular expression And I could tell what?

01:08:21: The other person was some i'm sure financially Still able Oh, but mentally for sure.

01:08:31: Mentally I think he was at that moment.

01:08:34: on that day He was he was out.

01:08:38: They give it a pass

01:08:38: and uh i did go to the auctioneer.

01:08:42: Yeah

01:08:43: Get a bloody move on.

01:08:44: excuse my language To drop the hammer.

01:08:48: I've been there not just For half an hour about yeah A year-and-a-half?

01:08:53: Yep That's how long we've been discussing It.

01:08:56: um And The Hammer dropped.

01:08:59: Mission accomplished

01:09:00: deal done as you said mission accomplished.

01:09:03: Where are you relieved?

01:09:06: Yes feeling of relief that.

01:09:07: You say okay, I could.

01:09:08: huge

01:09:08: relief Emotion.

01:09:10: this is This Is an Unrepeatable

01:09:14: Yeah

01:09:15: moment records get broken and i think That record will one day be broken.

01:09:20: maybe

01:09:20: yeah

01:09:22: But it won't Be by a greater car than that It Will just be the market catching up.

01:09:26: Apologies for The next question But I think it's very interesting to understand that.

01:09:31: How did that sale change your ego?

01:09:36: Or what?

01:09:37: so ever, or didn't not change anything?

01:09:41: My friends probably accuse me of having a big ego in the first place.

01:09:47: It

01:09:49: hasn't changed...

01:09:51: Still as overblown as ever!

01:09:56: This is really like and accomplishment in life for sure.

01:10:00: And also, I couldn't think of someone that is your client to get the custodian of this significant.

01:10:07: historically it's a significant and highly emotional car in the automotive universe.

01:10:14: Are there any conditions?

01:10:16: For the sale in terms of what you can do or what you cannot with that?

01:10:20: Yeah!

01:10:21: The conditions i think are probably confidential but given Was and is because they have the cistica obviously mm-hmm in the museum.

01:10:35: The soul surviving wouldn't help coupe I should say so.

01:10:40: so other surviving yeah, okay Yeah There are.

01:10:44: there are restrictions on what you can do with it in terms of who maintains it But i think conditions that You understand when you realize the significance of that car to Mercedes.

01:11:03: they described it as parting with one of their children.

01:11:05: Yeah, so yeah I mean i mentioned there was a thick contract.

01:11:09: There Was The Criteria for being allowed To bid on That Car and I don't know exactly or?

01:11:21: Don't Know all Of Those Criterion yeah but When They Said A maximum of Ten People Around The World That tells you that the criteria were quite strict.

01:11:31: It's a huge amount of money, but there are obviously more than ten people around in-the-world who could afford to spend it on something or something that floats or a car.

01:11:42: so that shows you that Mercedes was very selective about how they allowed to bid for their cars.

01:11:48: So this is The Holy Grail.

01:11:51: Apologies for that analogy But still In your personal life and your personal auto life.

01:11:59: Is there a car that you said, I need to have this one in my life?

01:12:04: And i'm looking for it or chasing It For A Long Long Time but Have Not Achieved That Goal?

01:12:12: If You Didn't Have Those Goals... ...You Wouldn'T Have The Dreams To Chase Yes!

01:12:20: ..A Collection That Becomes Static..and I Would Say That Because I Sell Them Cars But Become Static And Never Buys Or Sells.

01:12:28: Another Car Becomes really starts to die.

01:12:33: true

01:12:35: needs to evolve needs to Needs to keep developing.

01:12:38: Keep improving yeah, and the same I think is true of any car enthusiast myself included.

01:12:46: There's always got to be something to chase.

01:12:47: there's always ought to be a dream.

01:12:50: The mirror Always was To me a dream And i've had mine now for nearly thirty years Yeah?

01:12:57: And I love it as much As did when I first got It and I still get butterflies before A special driver, long drive in it.

01:13:05: The Carrera RS which I had as my dad has a kid is the car he would never sell because its one of his cars that he kept and I inherited so been with him for over fifty years.

01:13:16: It's

01:13:16: great car to drive!

01:13:17: It was fantastic all around car-to-drive.

01:13:22: Its German at works.

01:13:26: There are reasons.

01:13:26: most cars are collectible when they were just used.

01:13:32: but people who loved Cars said to each other have you tried one of those?

01:13:37: You really should and the word spread, and over time values increase in.

01:13:40: The same thing by the way about the Ferrari GTO or two fifty GTO that proper GT.

01:13:45: Yeah People focus so much on the value of that car And it's a calling card and so on.

01:13:52: but leave all that aside.

01:13:55: if you get opportunities drive One Of Those cars and You've got you know plenty of owners.

01:14:01: take That opportunity.

01:14:03: yeah Forget the value if you can.

01:14:05: And, If it gets bent very expensive metal doesn't need to cost a lot more than A more humble car to fix and they've all been crashed at some stage in their lives because there were racing cars.

01:14:18: Then You realize why people started collecting those cars when They would just use racing cars.

01:14:23: now I'll never be able to afford a two fifty GTO.

01:14:25: that is something i Would love To own and if I did?

01:14:27: I would drive It All The Time Everywhere.

01:14:33: No excuses because it's just such a feel-good car when you're sitting in that seat.

01:14:38: The bulge of the carburetors, of the wings.

01:14:40: Of the air scoops... ...of leather straps and chrome clips.

01:14:44: The bare dashboard which there is very little.. ..the beautiful thin rimmed wooden wheel.

01:14:49: The tall metallic and usually heated gear lever And an aluminium gear knob.

01:14:55: The reverberation inside the car.

01:14:57: So I'm going on here.

01:14:59: Turned the key Here the click-click of the fuel pumps push it in this eruption of sound.

01:15:03: Yes, that car makes you feel good to drive.

01:15:06: It just makes me feel good about life.

01:15:10: So a GTA would be lovely but I don't think I'll ever be able to afford one.

01:15:14: and then on A completely left of field level purely romance not the driving experience.

01:15:23: i've never sold And certainly not owned a Bugatti Royale when I was a kid.

01:15:29: Believe it or not, I'm a teenager.

01:15:30: That was my dream car!

01:15:32: It's just so overblown... I suppose you could say that it is the Lamborghini Countach of its era in a way although serving a completely different purpose?

01:15:40: Absolutely!

01:15:41: It is SO much more than you would ever need The Countache in terms of performance and styling back on the day And many years earlier – forty years earlier, more then forty years early at the Royal Longer Bigger More powerful Karl, that would suit you.

01:16:00: Thank you very much.

01:16:01: It

01:16:01: is...

01:16:02: I feel it's true.

01:16:03: Herculean in its proportions.

01:16:06: Steering wheel the size of a bus.

01:16:08: Four horns by the way.

01:16:09: One on every spoke This huge great Bus-like gear change.

01:16:18: Three gears i think Twelve point.

01:16:21: seven litre engine if i remember correctly.

01:16:24: Fun to drive Arguably debatable But as statement Of what?

01:16:31: Human intent can do whether it's needed or not.

01:16:35: his academic the fact that is not makes even more remarkable Doing something just because It's a challenge.

01:16:43: Yeah, rather than because its pops because it's necessary so a Bugatti Royale at them At least I would love to handle once in my career.

01:16:53: That's the box that remains to be ticked.

01:16:56: um don't think i'll ever probably own one.

01:16:59: would it make financial sense?

01:17:01: I think we both know the answer to that.

01:17:04: But then again, everything should not be financially

01:17:06: rationalised.".

01:17:09: I think there's very nice closing words i have to say even though they're wonderful words to close our little classic gravel conversation here and because you said at the beginning... We shall NOT forget that cars are made by people.

01:17:30: people spend the most valuable asset they have, their lifetime in creating them and building them.

01:17:38: It makes them perfect and brings back to a perfect shape And that's absolutely.

01:17:43: there is no value you can put on that.

01:17:48: however before The investment it is important That we make sure that you have a car or buy your car that You have good time with because if the investment doesn't work Another very, great investment in your personal life has been completed by having a good time with whatever car it is.

01:18:10: And for this I would like to thank you Simon that joined us as our classic driver garage studio and took on an amazing journey of the black-and-white TV near Sienna on a farmhouse Watching the

01:18:28: Persuaders in Italian.

01:18:30: Watching

01:18:30: The Persuader's In Italian, to a dark room somewhere in Mercedes-Benz making that winning bit for most expensive motorcar ever sold.

01:18:42: I think this completes also with an impression of your life... ...in the fullest.

01:18:49: Well

01:18:49: thankfully we haven't talked about EasyJet which is where I spend alot my life But if i can Comments on you, if I can come back to what you just said.

01:19:03: Money comes and goes And most of us know that it goes more easily than it arrives.

01:19:11: What are going to spend it?

01:19:15: The memories or what stay?

01:19:20: If your own a car purely as an investment?

01:19:24: You're not getting value for money Absolutely.

01:19:27: You could probably make a lot more money, maybe lose a lot of money with Bitcoin or Nvidia.

01:19:34: Cars were built to be enjoyed.

01:19:38: This is called classic driver not classic investor for a reason True And if you don't get behind the wheel and find out what it will do and make memories For you and your family and your friends and pass that on to the next generation then... ...you're missing the point

01:19:59: Definitely.

01:20:00: Thank you all for joining us on this, as I said incredible journey in the automotive universe with Simon Kittsten here at Classic Driver Talks.

01:20:10: and if you like what you saw please do a favor and subscribe to our YouTube channel To never miss one of the future episodes Of our little podcast And off course not any one of our cool films that will be producing For You In The Future And also to be up-to-date of a daily classic driver life, follow us on our social medias and you will not miss anything out this wonderful world of automotive.

01:20:37: For me it's just say thank you again Simon Kittsten for joining us at todays episode.

01:20:43: Thank You JP!

01:20:45: Let's hope we can get the coffee machine working now.

01:20:48: Don't mention The Coffee Machine.