How do cars break auction records with Augustin Sabatié-Garat

00:00:00: An Enzo selling for seventy million.

00:00:02: There's no explanation to that, you know?

00:00:04: Like it is the magic of the auction somehow... Two billionaires maybe fighting for

00:00:08: it!

00:00:38: Welcome to The Classic Driver Talks, the place where we speak about everything happening in the automotive world and our guest today is someone who knows a crazy market quite well –the auction market.

00:00:52: Why do I say its crazy?

00:00:54: because i think its unpredictable.

00:00:56: If that is true, we will find out with our guest today.

00:00:59: Augustin Sabatier-Garras from Armistadbis.

00:01:02: It's much easier for me to say Gus and I only know you by the name Gus!

00:01:07: Welcome to our classic Laura studio.

00:01:09: Thanks JB.

00:01:10: thanks for having me today.

00:01:11: Before we jump into this vivid discussion about The Market which i'm very interested in because i can only learn.

00:01:17: And For someone who was With over two decades of experience uh...I would like To hear your opinion About things.

00:01:25: Please tell us a bit more about yourself.

00:01:27: I'm French gentleman, grew up in Paris and then moved to Italy in two thousand four where worked as mechanical engineer And the last job i did was To develop clutches for GT racing cars such as Ferrari Maserati Lomborghini Pagani and other brands.

00:01:48: After that in twenty twelve I move to London And since I'm still in London, so that's basically a very quick summary of what my background is.

00:02:02: I

00:02:02: love the fact you come from the mechanical engineering side and went to the more commercial side which people sometimes say it's unemotional.

00:02:10: but i completely disagree with this because if ever visit an auction live The tension inside your room.

00:02:18: really something super special.

00:02:21: It's probably one of the best parts about the job, is that adrenaline during the auction and see how it goes.

00:02:27: You constantly try to match what you were planning for what would happen in the auction... ...and actually happening.

00:02:36: live at home with your client who was interested in that car.

00:02:39: Is he bidding?

00:02:42: much above his limit that he told you about a few days ago.

00:02:47: And it's literally on the spot, so very exciting if you're into it!

00:02:51: It is absolutely wonderful and one of the best parts of this job.

00:02:58: I said in the beginning that auction market as described sometimes unpredictable.

00:03:03: we saw some crazy results at auction for low mileage Ferraris.

00:03:07: I mean, Arma Sotheby's in their sale and Florida this year, twenty-twenty six sold LaFerrari for six point eight million or six point six million?

00:03:16: And was not so sure a new record for the model.

00:03:19: Was this unexpected?

00:03:22: I mean it.

00:03:23: we have to come back a little bit into the market as well know that The market has been from let say the eighties and nineties is very flat market enthusiastic collectors and it was very, very tiny.

00:03:37: Very isolated if I may say.

00:03:40: And then obviously you've got the bubbles of the eighties that broke in ninety-one.

00:03:44: Those phenomena most people have forgotten probably.

00:03:50: Then there's a starting point for me happens when you have The Lemon Brothers bankruptcy and the subprime crisis.

00:03:59: That's where the people lost probably interest into the stock market in general, and start to look at different assets class such as cars or others.

00:04:13: You can see if you look data that global markets volume of transaction changed slightly from two thousand eight with a peak correct slightly between fifteen, sixteen, seventeen.

00:04:29: It's like wobbling a little bit but not crashing and correcting let say.

00:04:35: And interestingly it is the moment where less of investors came to buy cars.

00:04:41: or if I buy this how much worth in few months?

00:04:44: Few years!

00:04:46: The real collectors kind-of came back in seventeen, eighteen into market which was really interesting to watch.

00:04:57: Fairly quickly, unfortunately we went into the COVID anemia.

00:05:02: During covid.

00:05:03: in a way the market correct because on average the market collapse of thirty five percent but realistically there was a lot of things happening Because people were annoyed being in you know lockdown etc.

00:05:17: so People are spending a lot time watching what's for sale?

00:05:20: What is this?

00:05:21: And I think probably a lot of people who didn't buy cars in the last two years before Covid, and they're buying cars during Covid lockdown because it's like let's cheer up our morale.

00:05:35: Let us be excited etc...

00:05:37: We saw this by the way also on the classic driver traffic.

00:05:39: so the classic driving traffic spiked in that Covid period.

00:05:44: there was real demand for using time at home.

00:05:50: This is quite a good

00:05:53: correlation with things.

00:05:55: And then after the covid when you know, in the lockdown east and towards twenty one but especially twenty two all of sudden You had to clear reaction?

00:06:08: A lot of people were buying cars.

00:06:10: Yeah We could see the evolution of pricing.

00:06:13: so we talk about LaFraba just coming back to a df-fifty for example.

00:06:17: yeah Before that, the F-Fifty was two million.

00:06:19: Two million and a half.

00:06:20: That's where they were you know?

00:06:22: And all of sudden They moved to three and four million.

00:06:25: You know like in a very short period of time Like in few probably six months.

00:06:29: Yeah

00:06:30: These are already big jumps.

00:06:31: I mean really

00:06:32: big jump right there.

00:06:34: So we have this kind of post COVID effect Where people are exciting.

00:06:37: People wear Really really enthusiastic about buying cars And obviously There is focus on limited edition.

00:06:44: Brands do exist Today, I think that there's a very distinguished enthusiasm between dead brand and the one.

00:06:55: That still produce cars in.

00:06:57: this is difference.

00:06:58: Do you see it as an advantage?

00:06:59: But do have a brain that still produces cars if or has it influence?

00:07:03: actually because they will be no more cars under their brand name.

00:07:06: Well funny enough It reassured the buyer to have a brand that does exist and he can identify too.

00:07:13: I think we could witness, really.

00:07:15: We look at the market whether it's right or wrong... You can see that they have a feeling of membership and an appartenance with them in French.

00:07:28: It is not the right word for them.

00:07:30: Yeah

00:07:32: you are part of a group like this?

00:07:33: Exactly!

00:07:35: And we can see one over another factor.

00:07:38: but coming back to that hypercar evolution, most of them are limited edition.

00:07:45: The evolution of those models goes to turbos and hybrids etc... And I believe that the fact you can't see a very exciting future even it's more exciting than what we think maybe there is like hey why don't i look back not THAT far back but back into?

00:08:11: What were those cars?

00:08:12: how limited they where?

00:08:13: How nice there are etc, and we can see clearly That all the what.

00:08:18: We call them the F car.

00:08:20: so from the two-year GTO until yes EF eighty So the Supercar that's a. so it will go along.

00:08:26: I've got to big five or get the big six of good big seven eight nine Depends whether you take the Lafayette Lafaya Perta to consider if your defeat set or not.

00:08:34: But is basically those cars Are clearly driving in the market.

00:08:40: What happened?

00:08:41: and a bit like, you know that there's those moments in time where we spoke about Lemon Brothers.

00:08:46: We talked about the Supreme Crisis.

00:08:49: then unexpectedly The Backman Collection Cells is our dearest competitor early in the year.

00:08:56: And very big question when Crazy prices you cannot explain there's no explanation.

00:09:02: No, nothing about charity.

00:09:04: Yes There was super low mileage unique spec last car of the model usually and etc.

00:09:09: But it's not enough to explain.

00:09:11: like Ananzo selling for seventy million is just know.

00:09:14: no explanation through that.

00:09:15: Yeah Like It's The magic of the auction.

00:09:18: somehow You Know two billionaires may be fighting right but

00:09:20: what do you really say?

00:09:21: That's they're.

00:09:22: that's the reason.

00:09:24: No, I think there's no reason.

00:09:25: they would try to identify what happened actually in that day And it's a combination of factor.

00:09:31: but at the end of today you can't really say In a very scientific way.

00:09:35: Yeah What happen?

00:09:37: and that's the explanation?

00:09:39: It will be very interesting to know them.

00:09:41: yeah like Making finding the code.

00:09:45: so success in auction now would say hey

00:09:46: anyway we'll be cool.

00:09:48: But what the question was after that is more reactive is like Is this a sunny day, or is it summer?

00:09:55: Yeah.

00:09:57: And you never know.

00:10:00: and what was very interesting to see right after there were I believe if i'm not mistaking... ...I believed that the Backman collection Right After There Was Arizona Correct Then Followed by RetroMobil in Paris then followed by uh.. I believe the Dockering Cavalino we had in Miami Combine Miami, Miami Island etc.

00:10:27: and eventually Monaco time.

00:10:29: And we'll see.

00:10:30: now you know what's happening in Villa d'Estée over summer.

00:10:34: Yeah But also where we see is even the private sales market.

00:10:38: You know We Know What's Going on in the private Sales Market?

00:10:40: We do a lot of them and What we could See Is like The Confirmation auction after auction, private sale or seal bid.

00:10:52: There's a clear switch on the pricing of those cars.

00:10:55: it is very interesting.

00:10:58: obviously not every single car can get a premium but they limited edition low mileage perfect condition possibly single ownership.

00:11:09: there are research colors But we come back to the color.

00:11:15: Because in Monaco, if I don't know who were to jump into that... Yes please!

00:11:18: We had a silver Anzo so one of only nine

00:11:21: Anzo.

00:11:21: Wonderful car i liked it.

00:11:22: They even knew in Silver.

00:11:24: Yeah wonderful car but they've had nineteen thousand kilometers.

00:11:27: So like question is what is the weight?

00:11:30: Is the weight of the color makes the car or actually the mileage is something That he's affecting It?

00:11:37: you also have another factors which we didn't talk about this The tariff in America.

00:11:44: And as not, I don't know whether anybody knows that who is listening to us today but the... To bring a car from Europe to America it would cost only two and half percent of the value.

00:11:55: Yes.

00:11:56: To pour

00:11:56: the car into America for a car that he's over twenty-five years old.

00:12:01: But The US president has decided thinking about Chinese market and protectionism nothing about classic cars and has forgotten us in a way, that he put the tariff for fifteen percent.

00:12:16: Which on major cars there were several millions.

00:12:19: it's big you know...a big tax

00:12:23: Could be a big ticket.

00:12:24: yes

00:12:24: A bit tickets.

00:12:25: so what happened?

00:12:26: The reaction to this is isolation of US market.

00:12:30: So becomes very endemic market.

00:12:32: Endemic Market where the supercars their then went up in value because we don't have import them And they kind of like took to fifteen percent increase in value naturally plus the global effect off the market, etc.

00:12:47: But that's all of a sudden got fifteen per cent more in your ENZO and USB two in your GT or

00:12:53: etc.,

00:12:54: you know?

00:12:55: So...and also You have the fact but we're one more way interested into More modern cars is shifting.

00:13:01: We can clearly see the generation shift.

00:13:05: Before you could move a car there was no obligation problem on let say a Ferrari two seventy five gtb or a naster martin db-five, etc.

00:13:14: So those car could move easily from the continent to another one.

00:13:16: they were on the same.

00:13:17: yes They will road legal everywhere in the world.

00:13:20: The problem is now you've got European specification and US specification Japanese specification GCC so Middle Eastern specification And all of that Makes very hard to move a car from a continent to Another One from tax perspective or mitigation perspective, emission rules etc.

00:13:41: So every single market starts to isolate on their own and that's why in the US market being large demand versus offer supply Then price are going up and it's very hard to explain two clients.

00:13:57: Well, yeah I know that car or that model worth XYZ in America But actually in Europe or in the DCC area.

00:14:04: so they mean at least you can't get those prices And your move cars around.

00:14:09: You know an order buyers who were very active.

00:14:12: for example in America.

00:14:14: as you know we We had a really good Pebble Beach in twenty-five, and in October here in Zurich we have the fantastic auction with Swiss collection.

00:14:24: It was almost impossible to transfer than it was physically possible to transfer interest from America into that Swiss collection In part literally impossible where no US buyers.

00:14:37: So

00:14:38: Gus would you say its fair to say at least two years to limit the time frame?

00:14:46: I would like to look at, that car market has turned from a globalized market into regional markets?

00:14:54: Unfortunately with tariff yes.

00:14:57: That's probably the case... ...I believe maybe the tariffs are temporary.

00:15:04: when US presidents will change they might be way of at least ease them for any cars over twenty five years old

00:15:12: And that would make total sense, right?

00:15:13: Just

00:15:13: like we have in Europe.

00:15:14: In any case there's a reduced rate for collectibles.

00:15:18: let's say and I hope it is going to smooth out the things You wouldn't necessarily change the polynomial modulation.

00:15:27: Yeah!

00:15:27: That always very tricky.

00:15:30: So...that something that unfortunately exists and is pretty unlikely.

00:15:38: But we'll see how it goes, as I say.

00:15:39: We can't predict that.

00:15:40: so... Well very confident though of like It's funny.

00:15:45: there is lots of factors to limit the evolution on market but actually booming.

00:15:50: So its funny.

00:15:52: and this This what i find hard-to-understand.

00:15:55: And also coming back to a point to predict because Oh yes!

00:15:58: We have the tariffs for sure All limitations about the homologation of markets I agree totally.

00:16:07: And still we're seeing super interesting prices on cars from the two thousands to modern new cars in a sense as well.

00:16:17: But I find it a bit shocking that you see that for example at two fifty short wee bases now all the same value specific shortly basis like an and so LaFerrari

00:16:28: For most of the cases actually they are more expensive.

00:16:31: Yes, not only even though the show will be And that's very interesting to watch and see in the market is, they're all time great.

00:16:41: Yeah You know like a two-fifty show with base girl wing you know those like easily recognizable cars They actually fairly steady In terms of value show it based.

00:16:53: we sold.

00:16:54: I don't know how many in there are in The last I thought seven of them in the last three years And getting Always like if you know plus or minus based on the quality of the car.

00:17:08: but sure overall If you if you consider all the factors of each card a quite of the restoration and his tricks attacks that are You basically get kind of the same money.

00:17:18: Yeah,

00:17:18: yeah That's true also for The Gullwing.

00:17:21: I mean they're

00:17:22: very stable.

00:17:23: Yes sides

00:17:24: we have like a super special alloy Like usal to decline connection at that something super extraordinary

00:17:30: absolutely

00:17:30: em.

00:17:31: But things like speak about the client collection, which was really like a fantastic sale.

00:17:36: I mean that...I was like frozen in front of the YouTube live stream.

00:17:42: There's a junkyard?

00:17:43: Yeah!

00:17:43: The Junkyard sale.

00:17:46: So if you want to put metrics on the car market and many try to put Metrics On A Car Market And i always.

00:17:55: but it might be also my limited understanding Whatever metrics you're using, but I find it difficult to say.

00:18:04: Okay This is now the matrix of The gullwing.

00:18:08: if you have like or someone that peeked like the alloy one at the junkyard sale And how does it go into?

00:18:15: The calculation i find It quite difficult to see.

00:18:18: and the factor.

00:18:19: You said as well That you can Have bidders Who for emotional reasons dare To want to have this specific car.

00:18:28: But they had that emotion On that day, on that moment.

00:18:31: Yeah

00:18:32: exactly you cannot plan it

00:18:33: Three months later three months before they're not willing to buy at that model.

00:18:37: They are not into it.

00:18:38: I mean i have a story of like few years ago Like... Two fifty short wheelbase California Spyder.

00:18:44: We had one of those in the cell And car doesn't sell on that date.

00:18:50: and we said it three month's later To gentleman who was attending auction.

00:18:54: But he is focusing another car and paying attention to the car Spyder with only exact same price.

00:19:00: So no discount three months later.

00:19:03: But it was a question of moment, attention like he was focused on the very specific car and ignored rest... And that's what happened!

00:19:13: Sometimes you can miss a cell or on the flip side if stars are aligned then it goes crazy.

00:19:22: so thats why its absolutely impossible to predict.

00:19:25: Yeah, you know I like scientific things and mechanical engineers.

00:19:30: That's what i thought!

00:19:32: But I never really looked into.

00:19:34: how can we build a model of to predict the market etc...I think there are some very skilled people doing it..i found it interesting as an exercise but i think its alot more simple.

00:19:49: somehow

00:19:50: We knew

00:19:51: when You know, when the F-fifty market was very interesting.

00:19:55: There's only fifty cars US version Yes.

00:19:58: So we knew and that car would turn twenty five U S could import The European version into the?

00:20:05: u s without having to do any homologation.

00:20:08: Yeah That was a fairly easy prediction And it happened exactly as we said.

00:20:14: but thats We don't have To Do.

00:20:16: A Very Complex Mathematical Model True very basic way of thinking.

00:20:24: That could be one of the criteria you can use in the future, but this is limited by the

00:20:29: tariff.".

00:20:29: Yeah

00:20:30: obviously I mean we will see what that...what the future would bring in terms of this?

00:20:34: yeah nothing uh..we can do about.

00:20:37: it's the situation all market players are in at the moment.

00:20:42: so um....in that sense and also client offer like a fair fair game because it's the same situation for everyone.

00:20:48: At Armistad de Bies, do you have specific departments that try to predict things?

00:20:54: Outside of their just mentioned F-Fifty phenomena which was very easy to say.

00:20:57: okay there is big demand in

00:20:59: U.S.,

00:21:00: twenty five years they can be imported without any hassle... That's for sure.

00:21:04: but do you like also.. Do they tried to build models to analyze this?

00:21:09: or does really likes still a people business?

00:21:13: No, I still people business.

00:21:14: where we've been you know.

00:21:16: The company has been operating in the market for over forty years now from restoration which was initial.

00:21:24: yes business

00:21:26: not many people knows that and but it's still carries on.

00:21:30: Now as Not Many Know We As a Restoration Workshop we have one nine times best of Shrimp Beach aiming For the tenth One this summer, hopefully.

00:21:44: So we'll see how it goes.

00:21:45: but that's part of the business is actually the origin and then you turn into an auction business developed in more recent years to a global sales platform.

00:22:00: We do obviously public auctions that anybody knows about or are famous for But also have private sale which declined in very various options of doing private sales.

00:22:13: It could be consignment with public viewing, like the car is on a website and you need dealers.

00:22:24: it can be brokerage transaction or extremely discreet transaction like targeted transaction.

00:22:29: we get consignment produce a document that promotes the car but goes to only two three five clients.

00:22:36: if does work great doesn't We forget about it, you know?

00:22:39: So we can do things really tailor-made for each needs.

00:22:45: Each level of exposure to each client based on what they want... ...what they don't see and so an evolving system.

00:22:53: You could be super discreet at the beginning.

00:22:55: Try two or three clients that you think about then it doesn't work.

00:23:00: If it works great and is fantastic, the best results we can aim at.

00:23:04: It's usually the case but sometimes you know takes more time not to write moment And you just go a bit more wider.

00:23:11: You're bringing the cars to evens bring into RetroMobile being in the car on display at the ISO or whatever and Then he got a little bit more exposure But still don't have that website like wide angle of The market.

00:23:28: so We go by step.

00:23:32: also the way we can promote a car Privately.

00:23:35: and then you have all sort of famous seal bid.

00:23:38: they've been very successful for Let's call them.

00:23:41: find me another one.

00:23:43: Yes The white Enzo only won.

00:23:46: yes, there were made black ends or only one.

00:23:49: the the found Joe three on SL Roadster There is only one because it's this guy You know.

00:23:53: And those kind of cars have been doing super well in still bid.

00:23:59: That's

00:23:59: only for the super special ones.

00:24:00: We

00:24:01: try to keep it.

00:24:02: sometimes we have some other cars, but which tried To keep it.

00:24:06: two cars that you can't find anywhere else You know Which?

00:24:10: give that premium like we sold?

00:24:12: The Senna.

00:24:14: There was two Senna formula once with all the first DLS turbo singer whistle lots of things a little bit.

00:24:22: give the two things, this discretion of amount of selection because we don't publish if it's sold or not.

00:24:29: We don't published how much has been sold for but you still benefit from their leverages off the auction.

00:24:37: so people are bidding and bidding again etc.

00:24:39: So The platform is quite interesting.

00:24:42: It works...we've been very happy And covers an aspect on market where Well, I'm not sure now.

00:24:51: Don't want to go public at the auction and don't want you do private study could take six months or eight months Or two years to sell a car?

00:24:57: I don't wonder either.

00:24:57: so there's kind of like hybrid between the two And it suits certain clients.

00:25:03: then we try too To cover that aspect of the market either.

00:25:06: It's very interesting to see how our MSLB positions itself in this in this Market field and You are one of them The big players in that game.

00:25:16: i think its Interesting to understand.

00:25:19: Action House can also drive a market.

00:25:21: Do you think?

00:25:22: You have the power to drive a Market and your influence the market.

00:25:26: Well, it's not done on purpose in a way like we don't calculate Oh We're gonna drive the market on that model.

00:25:32: or I say yeah It's not down on purpose.

00:25:34: but we see That for example the formula one market which is very with a very specific market.

00:25:44: We created it completely.

00:25:45: It was a dead market, just like only people who wanted to have Formula One really racers.

00:25:52: that very specific they were buying and selling Formula one.

00:25:58: but in seventeen what we did is brought a two thousand won Micah Schumacher into contemporary art cell not a car auction.

00:26:10: So it was New York contemporary art cell at Sotheby's, in our head office.

00:26:15: And the car was in the middle of contemporary art artifacts.

00:26:19: so... It was quite interesting to see that that car I think we had a pre-sale estimate around three and half million We sold for seven plus million dollars.

00:26:31: And two are car persons?

00:26:32: Do you know them or is they an art person?

00:26:34: At

00:26:34: end of day there were cars but lots of bidders where art people actually.

00:26:41: And the very same car then sold again in Monaco last year for if I'm mistaking about eighty million dollars.

00:26:51: and That shows you how this market between seventeen and twenty five evolved.

00:26:57: But in the middle we saw probably Twenty-twenty five major Formula one whether they're many Ferraris, but not only McLaren's yeah.

00:27:06: You know great great stuff, also a Mercedes X-Level Samilton that got eighty million dollars in Las Vegas.

00:27:12: So that market of the Formula One.

00:27:14: we have been driving it and now were quite focusing on it.

00:27:19: We're not driving any sense or like...we don't have to create valuation but where drive is by try to source best pieces

00:27:27: That's

00:27:27: how you generate.

00:27:28: then It's not like, oh I wake up in the morning and i'm going to create a market specific market on the Formula One.

00:27:35: That will never work better but...

00:27:38: Today is strategy behind it as well.

00:27:40: In a sense The fact

00:27:41: that we saw working well.

00:27:42: now then We understood Like you have be really good at that And try identify where are greatest cars of the world?

00:27:52: Just Be ready when they're already.

00:27:54: You know by showing all track records Of what were done in Formula one MS is not that hard to convince people to come us.

00:28:04: And in recent time we have them and trust me, stay tuned!

00:28:08: We'll have a lot of new things coming In the next two years.

00:28:11: it's gonna be very

00:28:12: good on that side.

00:28:13: Since nineteen ninety eight Classic Driver Is The Place Online To Find Iconic Classics Like An S-Somart MDB V Or Modern Sports Cars Like The Latest Porsche GT III RS.

00:28:27: At Classic Driver you find offerings from most important dealers the most trusted auction houses, but also from private sellers.

00:28:35: So if you're thinking of buying a new car for your collection or selling head over to Classic Driver coming back about markets.

00:28:45: so as we said this was D&D at one market.

00:28:48: it wasn't very specific right and I think very specialized collectors with that field of motorsport even used cars in Clienti programs maybe.

00:29:01: Yeah, in a sense.

00:29:02: And I think that's also part of what we have to look at nowadays.

00:29:08: with the F-One Clienti program from Ferrari for example You can really use this one.

00:29:13: It is not something super affordable.

00:29:16: but you now have a car where old computers and an hour video about the Monaco Historic.

00:29:22: We were allowed visit the F One Clientii Program And you know, it's very fantastic to see this.

00:29:32: This computer is HP Computer for the season ninety-eight.

00:29:34: then You have them most smaller one computer looks more modern For the two thousand five seasons and so on but actually for every season you Have like your own computers standing there for each of the cars.

00:29:46: Yeah I mean for me and we said that also in that video on That you can find a new tube.

00:29:51: We also set their.

00:29:52: it's the magic of the V tensors just magical.

00:29:55: So would you say?

00:29:56: It was very important not only to collect a car, but put it somewhere in storage that you also have the chance of driving.

00:30:04: It's clearly one of the drivers on the market is the capacity for clients to use this car whether its eligible to Milimiglia or Le Mans Classic.

00:30:14: so those cars are legible to major events around the world Monaco Historic, Le Mans classic, Truoto.

00:30:22: we said the Milimilya Goodwood, Colorado Ground etc.

00:30:30: Those cars would always have a regular market.

00:30:35: Why?

00:30:35: Because there's always someone new coming in and said, I want to do the Minimedia, I wanted to do Le Mans or Monaco And you need buy an entry ticket.

00:30:43: The entry tickets are the car.

00:30:44: Yes Always.

00:30:45: So that is clearly a driver.

00:30:49: That how?

00:30:49: obviously the Ferrari Formula One Cars worth more than the McLaren the Williams or the Lotuses, etc.

00:30:59: because there's a super well-organized program.

00:31:02: I've been following personally that program since two thousand and two.

00:31:05: yeah i went first time to finale mondialino too in mizano And so have always very close with our program.

00:31:13: It clearly helps.

00:31:16: you know people decide whether they want or not.

00:31:19: Yeah wanted by a car.

00:31:20: They knew it is super well organized It's friendly, it is more accessible than what we think.

00:31:32: Yes you need to buy a Formula One.

00:31:33: that was several millions That´s true.

00:31:36: but after that its actually very manageable in terms of cost and running costs And everything like for what it gives You

00:31:44: know?

00:31:45: What does the guess offer season?

00:31:47: It depends whether you stay on your continent doing even rounds On your continent or Fly your car around the world doing going to Fuji, going to Kota and coming back.

00:31:58: Going

00:31:58: to Monaco?

00:31:59: Yeah exactly so I think that's really related whether you fly a car or not.

00:32:04: most of people they are regional So the US gentlemen use their cars in the

00:32:09: U.S.,

00:32:10: Europe & Japan mostly what is happening.

00:32:14: And it's combined with the XX program and the Fona Nine Modificata programs, so as a Club Conference in GT.

00:32:19: It's all a whole course of clientry... Yeah!

00:32:22: ...and they have this same mechanism you know?

00:32:25: I think because there are many events around the world where great tracks, great atmosphere very nice dinners, nice team to welcome like just give your very brief synthesis when you embrace it You arrive at the airport,

00:32:46: you got

00:32:47: picked up.

00:32:47: Hotels taken in charge your car is ready... ...you don't have to think about transportation or readiness of your car.

00:32:56: In Formula One and X-X you've got between... four, five guys dedicated to you in your car.

00:33:01: You've got the full gears like helmets overall

00:33:04: etc.,

00:33:04: you even have a massage and physiotherapist.

00:33:07: yeah uh...to look after you after your session .You've got telemetry checking ,you've got instructors, amazing coffee and food obviously around the world!

00:33:16: And you have those instructors with the telemetries and data how to improve driving and braking points ...and all of that makes you feel your works could be a Ferrari driver.

00:33:31: And that feeling is really cool, I think it's very nice and not complicated.

00:33:37: You know what i mean?

00:33:39: It's headache-free.

00:33:40: basically The way its organized was interesting to watch for long time there.

00:33:50: Very successful like when you go to finale mondiali, which is the end of your celebrations The last round off.

00:33:55: They're all the series.

00:33:57: You can see that I mean i don't know how many.

00:34:00: there's probably twenty five thirty formula ones and eighty xxs And i don' t know How Many?

00:34:06: For a nine modificata probably over them.

00:34:08: thirty cars yeah, and each guys running it's unless There's a crash but Like each guy's writing does no technical problem.

00:34:14: Yeah It looks like A very easy

00:34:17: way old Machine.

00:34:18: yes exactly.

00:34:20: And you can see that when you go and see the WECK.

00:34:25: You'll see Ferrari working on their cars, being so successful!

00:34:28: It's

00:34:29: very interesting to see how it looks easy... I know there is a huge work put into the program but it's an interesting correlation between the two.

00:34:40: Of course we can't think of actual WECC which is the world-renowned championship where the team works in such I don't know how to describe it.

00:34:50: It looks so fluid, you know?

00:34:53: Absolutely!

00:34:53: So this was also the impression that we had when we were visiting them while they're doing the respiration for the demonstration run in Monaco and I would highly suggest... ...that this should become part of the actual race in a sense.

00:35:06: But there will be amazing that really becomes a race in competition.

00:35:13: but this is exactly why.

00:35:15: now we spend back to the market situation and you mentioned brands.

00:35:19: We spoke about this in the beginning, You said there is a difference between brands that still exist which has the question of trust?

00:35:28: And also let me know if I can go into someone's case...

00:35:31: Yeah!

00:35:31: You feel it as headquartered.

00:35:32: This is a focal point.

00:35:34: Yes..you're

00:35:35: not lost.

00:35:36: You are not depending on independent workshops or stuff like these things ...You have the feeling at least Is the driver of Ferrari.

00:35:48: why?

00:35:48: what does Ferrari much better than other brands to become this iconic and?

00:35:55: make people pay premium for cars?

00:36:01: What is it, what do you think?

00:36:02: is the matter?

00:36:03: very hard because you have another brand which is There are three brands often on my thing.

00:36:08: It's message bands Porsche.

00:36:12: You see Mercedes Benz still in that

00:36:15: Mercedes-Benz is the history.

00:36:18: It's probably oldest brand, did everything from cars to trucks has lots of what we call was super advanced technology especially in the fifties with the W one nine six and etc.

00:36:33: so it's a brand that has a lot tell a lot say its still very consistent brand all the archives being in the same place, it's not like a brand-like Maserati or Lamborghini.

00:36:43: that have been sold several times and the archive has been lost or partially lost.

00:36:47: It is still there you don't know.

00:36:49: I think the consistency of Mercedes Benz... ...is still very interesting and reassuring part of it And their certification program is very robust.

00:37:03: The archive is phenomenal.

00:37:09: I would not undermine it.

00:37:11: Okay, interesting because if i look at auction catalogs you have to say that... ...I don't see too many Mercedes-Benzes at the moment.

00:37:19: No but when we have them and heavy duties

00:37:22: That's true!

00:37:24: You know sometimes We sell like W one nine six open or closed Like La Farae.

00:37:30: La Frapata is same thing.

00:37:34: But do what mean?

00:37:35: of course as we We mentioned so many times now that this Ferrari has this kind of magic around it, but...

00:37:42: Ferraris Ferrari is nothing you can explain.

00:37:44: It's a combination of many things I think obviously the nature of Enzo Ferrari and his personality The way he puts the brand How Ferrari won everything in early days And having unique choice of engine with V-twelve That at that time not many brands were using to race.

00:38:07: Yes, there were some V-twels in the Rolls Royce world and some others but like it was very specific for postwar racing There's not many v-twelves.

00:38:17: And obviously It makes a difference.

00:38:21: I think.

00:38:22: those long-run rallies, the Ferraris they won everything.

00:38:26: Whether it's Taglia Florio and Minimilia and Le Mans etc...

00:38:30: Amazing racing!

00:38:31: And then become successful also in Formula One starts to be like when you look at Ferrari's press conference in nineteen sixty two.

00:38:39: You basically have every single possibility you can.

00:38:42: Like, You've got crazy formulas and Formula One's and Sport Prototype in GTs... And you name it!

00:38:48: It is the peak probably of Ferrari at that time in racing.

00:38:53: Then obviously you have less of a Ferrari presence more into Formula one.

00:39:00: after Seventy-three there are fewer presents or in underarms until the car comes back through the GT program, a little bit with the triple-three SP.

00:39:10: And then the GT programmer and obviously finally... Finally!

00:39:14: The car is back in work With the success we all know now.

00:39:19: What a celebration

00:39:20: it was!

00:39:20: Phenomenal three times Le Mans World Championship last year.

00:39:24: So that's how do you explain this?

00:39:28: There probably also an element of like.

00:39:30: It's Latin, there is an element of Italian culture.

00:39:34: Food and relax and drama... I don't know.

00:39:38: Beauty?

00:39:39: Yeah it's just very hard to explain all those things that makes Ferrari so special in a unique way.

00:39:46: but having said that this is a very exclusive brand.

00:39:49: when you go to Ferraris it has to be old Ferrari.

00:39:53: Yeah, almost can't go too far without having a car from the Fiat group or Stellantis Group now.

00:40:00: You know what I mean?

00:40:00: It's very exclusive.

00:40:03: on the flip side you got to Rensport Union and yeah i'm exaggerating.

00:40:10: don't be harsh with me when they say that it was Porsche... ...it could come like a go-kart with flat six on it.

00:40:16: then your accepted!

00:40:18: But this is also the beauty of Porsche, and I think it's a power of Porsche.

00:40:21: Yeah!

00:40:22: It's another model that I call an inclusive exclusive.

00:40:25: For me... True.

00:40:26: ...I see like that.

00:40:29: I don't know if its fair to say but Ferrari always starting with Enzo Ferrari they always kept distance from everyone.

00:40:36: their drivers Their clients Everyone was in bit of a distance.

00:40:41: Just as a thesis.. I'm not... I can't prove it.

00:40:44: But Porsche was always okay go racing, let's do this all together.

00:40:49: And of course definitely the market entry into the Porsche world is much easier

00:40:56: and it's inclusive.

00:40:57: you show up to.

00:40:59: I'm not sure about the pronunciation but Luftgekühlt sorry!

00:41:05: You're going to Runds-Maudrinion ,you've got two other Porsche events... ...and its very inclusive that your there part in the family.. ..and get jumpin' you know?

00:41:13: Very well these are the other way around.

00:41:16: I don't think one is bad or good, it's

00:41:19: very different.

00:41:20: And what Ferrari does well... ...is the fact that whatever Ferrari you have there is an even for you!

00:41:32: There always something either through the dealership or through Cavalcade legacy tour, Corsica cliente and TXX program a club challenge, I can't forget all those programs.

00:41:44: So

00:41:44: many things it's really like.

00:41:45: literally for every ferry model you've confined up to specific events.

00:41:48: Yes there is a specific event where the specific community and your build relationship.

00:41:52: we built friendship.

00:41:53: It has been playing golf basically around the world.

00:41:56: You drive your ferries all over the world whatever you do always find that kind of group or friend have this same passion And its called the Cavalcade or Legacy Tour and a world premiere of the presentation with the new car.

00:42:11: So they're very, very good at that offering so many options or you know experiences.

00:42:18: absolutely yes

00:42:19: And I think that's probably the strongest offering.

00:42:21: uh... That i-that I know about in a smaller scale due to the number of cars Pagani is doing kind of the same.

00:42:28: Yes I think Koenigsegg as it in a sense..

00:42:31: And Koeniggsegg that I know A lot less than I'm used to knowing better because I'm very curious about the technique.

00:42:37: And, uh...I want to know that gearbox!

00:42:39: Yeah..I

00:42:40: mean thats absolutely....

00:42:42: I like go and visit Christian von Koenigsegg and say ''I am a clutch guy''.

00:42:47: but i want you how did your gearbox?

00:42:49: Exactly

00:42:50: tell us How Did You Do It?

00:42:53: I think there has been lots of discussion around Koenigs X and their reliability.

00:42:57: That I cannot comment on Because I don't have any Proof of that.

00:43:02: I just hear what i see.

00:43:03: but as you said it's the small brands like Koenigsegg, like Pagani.

00:43:09: and then in between Ferrari we have Bugatti sitting with a very interesting offering as well.

00:43:20: Bugatti is unique case either.

00:43:23: You've got the Pruo Bugatti, Artioli Italian Bugatti German slash French Bugatti.

00:43:31: So yeah, the Volkswagen era now remark it

00:43:35: and we're seeing all their prices also stabilizes.

00:43:37: Yeah It's a very interesting Brand that is one of the very few that could really transfer from the pre-war to a proper revival.

00:43:50: I mean you know many collectors that have both pre war Bugatti and also Volkswagen Aero Bugatti, of course in between the Adioli times.

00:43:59: And

00:43:59: I think they're all completely different era, different style things but at end-of-the-day you still have that same DNA being the best, excellence on technology.

00:44:10: so Prouar Bugettis were probably most advanced together with Alfa Romeo.

00:44:16: For me in my heart, sorry.

00:44:17: Yes

00:44:18: that's okay I think you know.

00:44:19: yeah it would not slightly with what slightly disagree

00:44:24: but But Bugatti has had that research of the absolute excellence Yeah And then was very successful.

00:44:32: pre-war Had the same thing With a eb one ten and has the same things with the Veron and the Sharon You Know.

00:44:39: so i Think That i mean We all know that today to develop a hypercar, or special car it roughly you've got three years of research and development.

00:44:51: Bugatti for the Veyron they took over seven years of researching and growing when you know the cost involved To be more than double at any other car.

00:45:01: Yes

00:45:02: It's mental And you see the effort I had put into because to reach those targets of thousand miles per hour four hundred kilometers an hour Well, people don't realize it.

00:45:11: A car can do three hundred kph with the same tires.

00:45:14: It's fine.

00:45:16: But but the tires has a deformation after certain circuit and you then create phenomena You don't know about when your two hundred to fifty-three hundred KPH And at four hundred is different

00:45:27: Different game?

00:45:28: Is different game completely.

00:45:31: The analogy is the TGV, you know the fast train we have in France than the high speed trains.

00:45:37: They had the same problem that they create at high speed.

00:45:41: it creates vacuum Yes, so the ballast little stones would just been sucked and hit The bottom of the train And create big damages.

00:45:49: because when you are four hundred KPH It's a drama.

00:45:53: Yeah in Bugatti When I have development over there on that they had this same kind of Challenges.

00:46:00: let say and its I think that makes, there has a great future for me.

00:46:05: That generation of Veron and Chiron we don't realize in it but its a long marketing history.

00:46:11: four hundred KPH on the road

00:46:14: yes

00:46:15: one thousand house power now is normal.

00:46:16: yeah my car's sixteen-hundred house power and mine is exactly

00:46:20: this is what they

00:46:22: base the first to get The

00:46:24: First One.

00:46:24: And also you can buy In A Small Series.

00:46:27: Yes This Is Coming Also There To The Question.

00:46:33: My feeling is that again, I just would like to have your opinion about this.

00:46:37: I think that Veron even a standard six sixteen point four Is undervalued at the moment in my completely?

00:46:46: Completely it's.

00:46:47: it's a rack.

00:46:48: if you see the number of example builds based on the version and on spoke on sport v test and our regular ones.

00:46:55: It's still a limited edition car whatsoever.

00:46:58: Every guy is almost unique because of the specification and color scheme, et cetera.

00:47:03: And I agree with you it's still Landmark in history and Bugatti great brand is You know what?

00:47:10: I mean II The.

00:47:12: let's say them the criteria are over there for a great future.

00:47:17: I think so too and I would be surprised if not this market will take off as well.

00:47:25: I mean we saw with the large meeting of Verans at Las Vegas Concours where they had a big gathering of US based verans and definitely, I see that this car is something... I would not say a sleeper, because therefore the prices are too high in the end.

00:47:43: But what is very good... A friend of mine said to me once and he's close with the brand Bugatti from his mindset And he says that the Veron had one big issue.

00:47:55: The first was it took long until the announcement in Geneva Until we saw our first production cars and they were never seen on road.

00:48:06: And he made this famous sentence and said, if you don't see a car at the car doesn't exist in public eye.

00:48:12: Yeah it's true It has to be is the case?

00:48:14: sometimes we have that That one of things.

00:48:17: Sometimes We have cars like exceptional.

00:48:20: Yes they've been such Isolation Such an isolation In terms Of Like What They Have Done.

00:48:26: Nobody Knows About The Stories And The Market Just Doesn't Cop with.

00:48:32: yeah, you know as much.

00:48:33: It's a weird thing because in the way people want to buy things that are easily recognizable Yes Because it makes you feel good when you're at the dinner is say oh I've got a DB five or I've gotta try my type of got a Ferrari to still use her.

00:48:44: yes Everybody knows what it is.

00:48:46: You know somehow if your more modern they've got uh?

00:48:49: I don't know.

00:48:50: i've got an end zone.

00:48:51: everybody knows What it is.

00:48:54: so it feels its.

00:48:55: it's an easy and comfortable conversation to have.

00:48:59: but On the website, people want unique things to be different of the crowd.

00:49:04: So that's it is.

00:49:05: there does the maturity of The Collector.

00:49:07: but firstly you buy Things That Are Easily Recognizable.

00:49:10: then You Select More and You Buy Things That Nobody Has Because You've Been There And You Show Up To Your Concourse.

00:49:21: Even So Your Rally In Everybody has Got The Same Crowds As You.

00:49:24: But then what makes the difference is that I've got a Formula One, and this.

00:49:27: Or I have the Le Mans winning car or the Minimiglia winner... That's what

00:49:31: I'm thinking!

00:49:32: You go there once you find your brand but think you want to go higher and deeper in it because exactly like with the yacht guys.. ...you want to have the longest yard right?

00:49:43: Yeah we won't have an unique one either.

00:49:45: Exactly so ummm.... And then we'll back into history.

00:49:48: So This Is What We See In The Classic Driver Market.

00:49:51: Obviously, we see definitely now a high interest in cars as we said from periods two thousand onwards to more than but then sometimes Out of the classic driver marketplace.

00:50:03: We push A model that is very rare and very special It's at fifty or sixties cars And we see quite interested In it and also from young people.

00:50:13: The generation might not be in touch with these kind Of cars because they were too far away From them Always, it's the story and history about it.

00:50:24: Provenance is a very important part also in building a market.

00:50:28: being in the market It's exciting to see what will come.

00:50:33: that brings me to the point.

00:50:35: Gus Do you see your car at this moment?

00:50:41: We spoke of the Veyron but I mean it more radical way.

00:50:44: do use your car as the moment that is horrifically undervalued.

00:50:53: Well, it was the case few months ago.

00:50:55: before that all what happened in the last six month.

00:50:58: Yeah But slide like now.

00:51:00: It's keeping up Like I thought.

00:51:03: like let's call it like a year ago or less than a year go?

00:51:07: I thought the five fifty bar keta is very undervalued.

00:51:10: yes

00:51:11: its

00:51:12: In terms of numbers and terms of design

00:51:14: it's rare as a choice in their front engine manual and Safari, it takes a lot of boxes.

00:51:20: And I don't think the roof is an issue.

00:51:24: so i thought that's weird... ...that market is penalizing this car.

00:51:33: by the way now its going up like crazy there.

00:51:36: another car which was really sleeping in the market which defined on NGTO but now it starts to keep up.

00:51:41: It still not yet where should be.

00:51:42: So

00:51:43: would have been good car for jump?

00:51:45: I think already went up.

00:51:47: But I think it's not yet there, knowing what is happening with the ATOF competition and the FTOF TDF.

00:51:54: Which rightly gets what they deserve in a market.

00:51:58: but i still thing that the Final NGTO is rare car And if you want to be even more specific You need to buy Final NSA.

00:52:06: So open version of GTO.

00:52:08: Not many people thinks its'a GTO.

00:52:11: It's a GTO engine.

00:52:18: In every single aspect of the car, but open and it is rare.

00:52:23: So I think those cars that are not completely looked after in much more approachable way You know you've got different generation of thris the three-fifth out with a four five six and then you have, uh You know in the modern eyes more with the Maranello In some how.

00:52:45: And then you've got the fourth.

00:52:46: thirty was defined on nine and for five eight with the F twelve etc.

00:52:49: etc.

00:52:53: Between eight and twelfths.

00:52:54: in this I think The generation which is specifically the first one of the dual clutch Which is the f-twelve?

00:53:00: On one side than the full fire at the other side That generation Is super pretty Whatever version you take.

00:53:09: Yes, I can't take a regular four five eight the spider a speciale especially operator.

00:53:14: You couldn't take an F twelve or TDF whatever you take.

00:53:19: It's absolutely gorgeous car.

00:53:21: yeah

00:53:22: its shoe very very usable It's reliable it's well finished.

00:53:29: i think that generation of cars as Long long future and it's also the start of the atelier until I'm made.

00:53:36: And so you can have fun with finding a car that has been, you know It's fairly unique in terms of specification.

00:53:42: This is what i like At The five nine line gto because You find absolute amazing specs on That car?

00:53:48: So i totally agree that this A car to watch for the ff-twelve

00:53:53: Even regular cars.

00:53:54: are you going on TDF or Fiat Speciale, you know what I mean?

00:53:59: No.

00:53:59: You don't have to and then agree.

00:54:01: but i think the reason for the f-twelfth is also being in the last.

00:54:04: Pininfarina design cars helps a lot too.

00:54:07: make it special

00:54:08: yeah.

00:54:09: And this comes through closing now because It really shows that there are so many different factors In creating value What drives the market.

00:54:22: That's why I can stick to my entry comments saying it's not that easy to predict the auction house market.

00:54:32: My mentor said in early days, this is not an exact science.

00:54:38: Exactly!

00:54:41: That would be a great t-shirt.

00:54:46: My brain has been set like this from the earlier days of me working on business And I think he was right.

00:54:57: I couldn't agree more because we asked all our guests to profile themselves by the cars they choose, not their own but their car that would like to own.

00:55:07: and We ask you have a look at the classic driver market Where now i think around eleven thousand cars for sale.

00:55:15: of course very special ones.

00:55:17: That's what always try to find.

00:55:20: What will be.

00:55:21: when your last time were on Classic Driver browsing them What would be the three ones that stuck to your mind?

00:55:27: Two for sure, I'm not sure if i have three.

00:55:30: Okay.

00:55:31: To that really... I was like hmmm.. That's interesting!

00:55:36: One is a final MGT which we just spoke about in very dark grey colour and I found it super attractive And still a dream for me.

00:55:47: but can't afford it.

00:55:49: I aim for.

00:55:51: you know,

00:55:51: i'm sorry that we just created the open open pandora's box on there.

00:55:55: On the five nine ninety zero.

00:55:56: It's probably up gonna follow that dream.

00:55:58: like the more i can maybe afford it The more is going up.

00:56:01: so always a liker You know and

00:56:04: less yes

00:56:05: thing uh?

00:56:07: The other car that i think its Its been a car that has been Always weird in the market mm-hmm but it's a car That i really believe in.

00:56:17: And We come back to the The concept more of the theory or what Ferrari DNA is, there's a Daytona Spyder for sale which one of the real car.

00:56:27: One of the hundred and twenty inch cars built like hundred twenty three twenty two whatever it

00:56:32: I think.

00:56:33: And It's a twelve cylinder four cam six carburetor manual gate shifter.

00:56:43: you know if You tick all that What do you want on the ferrari?

00:56:46: You want a V-twelve?

00:56:47: Tick the box.

00:56:48: Four cam, tick the box, talk tube, have a shifter, open car front engine like limited edition.

00:56:57: here we go.

00:56:57: you take a lot of boxes and I can't remember on top when i had the x king price but call it between two and one half million.

00:57:06: yeah It's a lot

00:57:07: for

00:57:07: what u get.

00:57:08: yes

00:57:09: And the softop works nicely

00:57:12: and the sound was great.

00:57:13: Sound is amazing.

00:57:15: It's rare,

00:57:16: yes

00:57:18: I just and it's a very nice car to drive.

00:57:20: you can do long run.

00:57:21: You know travel with it?

00:57:22: You've got luggage space.

00:57:25: You know when you think all of that like

00:57:27: yeah crazy

00:57:28: i'm Like.

00:57:29: Is it like is it still there like we talk about like you Know versus you know younger siblings Of the ferry brand.

00:57:40: I think that's a very good choice.

00:57:42: It will definitely look Good, and i saw the Daytona.

00:57:46: it's funny that the Daytonas by the market they kind of like wobble between two million and three million half And come back in comeback can come up and on an up-and-down and For new and there are very Very robust.

00:58:01: car like at Daytona is a very strong car.

00:58:04: its reliable if he's well sorted.

00:58:06: but all right guys There's no problem with, you know, having it in the long run.

00:58:11: Like I would go London down to to Puglia without like no problems and they are.

00:58:17: that's always interest me.

00:58:20: why?

00:58:22: You know what i think What The Reason Could Be That owners who have an original cars Are Always Facing Is It Original Or One Of The...

00:58:30: It could well be but now There's a big cleanup with very classic way, you know like.

00:58:38: I think that issue was the problem probably twenty years ago but now it is Classic A.

00:58:43: But then we sit on an

00:58:44: issue?

00:58:45: Are sure to see the market stabilizing or not?

00:58:47: one

00:58:48: yeah i just think its uh... Its a car anybody could have.

00:58:53: You can be young and easy car to drive.

00:58:55: you know what I mean.

00:58:58: I believe in that There's some of you things like super rare color, cylinder Ferrari or whatever.

00:59:04: Like yes cool there is a blue Scotia for that is Cadiria right now.

00:59:10: Amazing but like this already so much hype on it like.

00:59:15: You know don't

00:59:15: believe the hype.

00:59:17: someone said

00:59:17: yeah

00:59:18: I mean

00:59:18: what?

00:59:20: No It's cool to have to have those cars But i think its a car that is slightly older like a Daytona.

00:59:30: It's probably more usable on a daily basis.

00:59:33: Good point, yeah you know interesting.

00:59:35: Yeah I

00:59:37: mean i won't go into details but i have got two Ferrari of different era one Of the late seventies and One off the mid-twosomes.

00:59:48: love both But The older one it's the car that i probably is such A usable car.

00:59:57: You jump in the car, you park it on street.

01:00:00: You don't have to worry about that at any kind of margin.

01:00:04: put into a car I drive up and down across Europe like i drove from Veneto area down to Rome for an entire concourse.

01:00:14: Go go visit Ferrari then went to Riva went to Brescia went to Monte Carlo back to Mugello Like I did two thousand kilometers with this car last month.

01:00:25: Without thinking and might the first thing I want to do is to drive it back to London.

01:00:28: Yeah, you know.

01:00:29: But what does the car?

01:00:29: You just mentioned seventy.

01:00:30: sorry

01:00:31: It's a three sixty five GT four two plus two which is there.

01:00:34: The First version of the you know four hundred and four twelve yeah And that gives that.

01:00:39: that gives you probably eighty percent Of the Daytona experience without spending them any other Daytona.

01:00:44: so i'm should not say that we like

01:00:46: We keep That as A secret its

01:00:47: Heavier and not As pretty.

01:00:49: I agree it's Bit ugly but I love it.

01:00:54: It's so ugly that it's pretty.

01:00:56: Actually, actually not bad when you look at the Fioravan T-Design and lots of things are quite interesting.

01:01:05: but what I mean by this is... When i drive my Fiery Nine-Nine with a GTE car It's a fantastic car, but six hundred twenty horsepower on the side.

01:01:17: On the B roads honestly speaking you're not really having fun.

01:01:20: You always like oh it is careful and the car is wide as big etc...you are having fun in motorway.

01:01:25: two hundred twenty to one fifty.

01:01:26: but where can we drive that?

01:01:27: You know you don't have many occasions to drive that fast.

01:01:31: To enjoy the whole potential of the car bringing under the racetrack right now Is probably not the right thing to do So.

01:01:37: at end of day It's more usable to drive those, you know, sixties, seventies Ferraris even eighties.

01:01:45: Yeah interesting

01:01:47: probably it requires a bit of maintenance but when you know how do You know where the words go?

01:01:52: It's not the end-of-the world

01:01:54: need to drive them.

01:01:55: That's the most important part.

01:01:56: The more

01:01:56: you drive it.

01:01:57: unless you have two things about itself

01:01:59: and gas keep on driving Not only markets But also your cars,

01:02:04: that's my number one thing.

01:02:07: I started as a collector.

01:02:09: I had my first classic car when i was fourteen.

01:02:14: So Citroën Dechevaux, AZU so utility car for the van.

01:02:21: you know that?

01:02:22: That was a car that my great-grandfather bought new and we always kept it in.

01:02:26: my grandmother gave to me.

01:02:33: Lovely!

01:02:36: to make that point clear.

01:02:38: Exactly,

01:02:39: so I grew up with buying cars.

01:02:43: all that i enjoy and can use for even every single car has a job yeah.

01:02:48: And in those cars they go from, you know, Citroen De Chubot and little Fiat Panda four by four that I use in the mountains.

01:02:55: In the summer get a Fiat five hundred because my mum used to drive me at school with the Fiat Five Hundred.

01:03:00: so i bought one but i'm about another five nine five obviously on nineteen sixty-four

01:03:05: more fun

01:03:06: exactly!

01:03:07: And then Burton Koop Alpha which is probably the best entry ticket to the collector world?

01:03:13: I think together with Pagoda...I think those are two cards that would advise someone who's first buy.

01:03:19: It's a reliable, eligible safe car with disc brakes all around and things like that.

01:03:27: So I think those are the two cars... ...that really encourage people.

01:03:32: if you don't know anything about our community.

01:03:35: Start with this!

01:03:36: With that it is cheap enough, good enough, great fun still iconic brands such as Alfa Romeo or Mercedes-Benz.

01:03:44: You got a lot for what would get.

01:03:49: And then it goes for, you know most of the people knows me from my XK-one twenty that I drive at Le Mans and many other places.

01:03:57: On ice?

01:03:57: For

01:03:58: example.

01:03:58: On the ice... I drove everywhere!

01:04:00: My black XK.

01:04:03: It's my wedding car, it is

01:04:05: very close to yours.

01:04:06: The last car would sell.

01:04:07: Yeah no i don't sell cars by the way but how do we do

01:04:10: this?

01:04:12: I know someone, his name is Gassi works for Alameda Viss.

01:04:15: You can ask him to introduce

01:04:16: me?

01:04:16: Yeah

01:04:17: he looks very similar.

01:04:18: actually you could be twins.

01:04:19: i think no.

01:04:20: but um thank you also for sharing this because that's something it's very important.

01:04:25: yes we are interested in markets as well because you don't want to necessarily lose money on a buy and the car for sure.

01:04:33: But one thing which is also a classic driver Very important To us Is That We Share The Love For Motor Cars And that's what we do.

01:04:42: I get often asked, ah!

01:04:44: What you think?

01:04:45: Is it a good

01:04:45: investment?".

01:04:47: My answer is always because... ...I cannot predict this and my answers are always if you're interested in purchasing your car.. ..and imagine yourself going down a sunny road on your own having a great time.

01:05:05: go for it Because these are the best investments to make didn't work, it will not hurt that much because you made a great investment in enjoying driving and I think thats very important.

01:05:19: It's absolutely true by what your love like.

01:05:22: look i bought together with some of the members from my family a five-tooth BB carburetor.

01:05:27: yeah And I bought that in fifteen and we versus todays value overpaid no?

01:05:33: Yeah We never get that money back if we... If I sell it to day ,I would never give them any back but It's been twelve years is with us.

01:05:42: I drive it, I enjoy it.

01:05:44: Yes, it's a wonderful car.

01:05:45: that's another undervalued car by the way I

01:05:48: was just asking about to be honest because its crazy.

01:05:52: how Undervalued these fantastic driving machines are is unbelievable.

01:05:55: The BB is funny Because it's fairly rare when we look at it.

01:06:01: Every single model has his own production you know but like.

01:06:05: It's a very usable car, more than what we think despite it is the mid-engine.

01:06:09: Yes

01:06:10: You can put lots of luggage when you know how to do with soft bags and etc.

01:06:14: So I use it to drive with my wife When we go in Pimonte And have some wine tasting or truffle eating Or...it's a Very very usable Car.

01:06:25: The sound is amazing It just like Something that people don't..I think To come back to buy what you like and then don't make it as a pure investment.

01:06:38: People don't drive their cars enough, we talk about those super low mileage cars.

01:06:42: I mean they do not drive that car.

01:06:43: No!

01:06:44: I put probably fifty thousand kilometers on most of my cars You know?

01:06:48: Yeah And all drive regularly... have a reason why to drive them.

01:06:56: And I said, oh if i do that trip um but I just did it.

01:06:59: took the three sixty five down and then I went back to London took the phone and out and Then I took the Decheville when in countryside used the Pondin Mountain.

01:07:08: like you try to make sure use them on all those faces of your life because When you buy something you don't like and market collapse You hate it a thousand times more.

01:07:22: Absolutely,

01:07:22: but if your market collapse like like happens on the BB when I bought It i just use it and having fun And I just love it you know.

01:07:32: So it's not it's another problem?

01:07:34: I think and I would encourage most of The yeah people to do the same.

01:07:37: you know buy what you'd really really that That's that's the most important thing and use it.

01:07:43: That's the second thing.

01:07:44: Use them

01:07:45: go

01:07:46: out and drive Yeah and share the passion.

01:07:49: And that whole thing of limited edition, okay buy a limited edition as pure investment but by the sister car and drive it.

01:07:55: Exactly

01:07:56: if you have the means do that

01:07:57: yeah.

01:07:57: so

01:07:59: Gus thank you very much.

01:08:00: I've uh i really like this shift from sheer market view to the most more emotional part of our field and of our community and i think that's something that is very important um eagerly important.

01:08:16: You want to understand also the market a little bit, but it's all about emotion in the end as well and Also your personal enjoyment that you can take away and create great memories.

01:08:27: So Gus.

01:08:28: Thank you very much.

01:08:28: joining us In our classic driver talks That's highly appreciated And thank YOU for joining Us As Well!

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